I was able to attend the Barrett/Jackson Auction in Scottsdale this past weekend and I saw many unbelievably beautiful cars. Later, my friends that I went with and I were discussing beauty, as it relates to cars. What exactly is it about certain cars that makes them universally attractive?

Since then I have asked other people the same question. The responses I have received can be divided into two camps. The first are references to some other car they like, e.g., "The front of a Jag, rear like a Corvette". The second are references to female anatomy "rear end looks like a woman's sensual hips, front curves remind of breasts," etc. Neither approach really answers the question.

My theory is that there are two elements to consider. First involves proportions of the various parts relative to each other. The second has to do with qualities of the curves throughout the design. From the 70s up until recently a lot of designs made use of large, relatively flat panels,
connected by small radius curves. Typical sedan, truck, etc., bodies.

Now we are seeing in a lot of the retro designs a nod back to the intermediate-radius shapes.

Why are these radii so appealing? I think it has something to do with the way highlights reflect off them. With car in which large, flat panels are connected by tight radii, the highlights are reduced to dots, unless you happen to be at just the right position for a flat panel to catch the sun.

With "just-right" radii on the various body panels, every panel will produce a highlight. All the highlights will be of a "good" visual quality.

In a sense, the selection of radii and proportions is from a spectrum. On one end you have the first gen Hummer, old land rovers, etc. On the other end you have the jelly bean, low Cd cars. The idea in creating a successful design is to find the sweet spot on that spectrum.

What do you think?

Here is an image of a beautiful car. Notice the reflections and highlights.

its all depends who's looking at it i guess,

thats why 20 locosts parked side by side will not look the same, a wheel on each corner then its off on your own idea....

Thing is, to me, that's not a beautiful car.

You might get something out of talking to a psychologist, an artist and a car designer.. I'd guess it has something to do with cars and other things and shapes that have impressed themselves on a certain person's mind, so different for each of us. Maybe someone has a childhood memory of some big noisy truck that impressed them, so they subliminaly appreciate design features that remind them of that in muscle cars..

"fiddly psych stuff like that" is what I would guess the answer is to the question "what makes a car beautiful?". It lies in the eye of the beholder.

beats me how this ever got made - has curves tho!

atb

steve

Definitely the female hips thing, especially around the butt-tock area of an automobile. And symmetry too. The highlights just emphasise the likeness to a female butt-tock, all the truely beautiful supercars have it, the EB110 does not. I really need to get out more!!!!!!

If I didn't know better I'd say you were an undercover spy for Fiat...

Steve Gust - your picture didn't appear at first but now it has and 'low and behold' it's the same car!

By far and away the worlds most ugly car! Swiftly followed by the Porsche Cayenne... eeew. Just proves even Porsche have made a few dogs...

fiat know its ugly

their site lists 'the ugly bug ball' in northampton in may - its a rally for these things.

atb

steve

Ugly car:



Pretty car:

Prettier car:


Brutal looking but pretty:


Don't ask me to explain my likes/dislikes 'cos I can't. It's gut instinct, animal level stuff.
(note to self, up medication
)

[Edited on 27/1/04 by Browser]

[Edited on 27/1/04 by Browser]

the red car looks best and...... is that an edsel?

I actually quite like it - distinctive - cant say that for many cars now

atb

steve

This is the ugliest car ever made:



Thing is, the Multipla is a very good car. I'd much prefer one to a Zafira (maybe not the Turbo ) if I had 3 kids.

i might throw a spanner in the works and say that I might not care what the car actually looks like (well, ok, to a degree).

I'll say that I think properly engineered, purposeful cars are beautiful.
now, i really like this one:




simple, everything in the right place, properly made, oh and goes well too.

Ned.

One could almost say that beauty is more than skin deep!

[Edited on 27/1/04 by ned]

I dunno, I think that a lot of these cars have at least something going for them.... or maybe i'm just sad

Anway this just hasd to be the ugliest so far in this thread....



Ug - lee

add that to your list of ugly cars and basically just about ALL other american cars can go in as well !!!

what else can you say about the country that brought you "IRAQ War II: The Re-CON"



[Edited on 27/1/04 by protofj]

quote:

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Originally posted by protofj
add that to your list of ugly cars and basically just about ALL other american cars can go in as well !!!

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i believe there are two ways a car can be beautiful (maybe more but definately two)

one is to be human like, the eyes etc, this relates to what steve says, including highlights.

the other is as ned says, brilliant purposeful engineering, raw and hardcore. this would cover le mans style cars which are lovely but not at all human like.

then theres my car.

quote:

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Originally posted by ned

quote:

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Originally posted by protofj
add that to your list of ugly cars and basically just about ALL other american cars can go in as well !!!

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Dave,

what about the gt40 and dodge viper, oh and mustang, oh and cobra.

cheers,

Ned.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by ned

quote:

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Originally posted by protofj
add that to your list of ugly cars and basically just about ALL other american cars can go in as well !!!

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Dave,

what about the gt40 and dodge viper, oh and mustang, oh and cobra.

cheers,

Ned.

---

The GT40 was designed and built by Ford GB... Unlike the new GT....

Dammit Spyder, you had to beat me saying it

spyderman,

i'd agree with most of your favourites, i was referring to the gt350 and shelby gt 500 mustangs, of course.

Ned.

The new GT is brilliant but i've seen a lot of people pan it for having a truck engine "like a viper". This isn't the case, the basis in on a truck engine but not one part is the same, crank, pistons, heads, everything has be custom designed for the GT. It's sweet, I want one
Twice the torque over twice the range of a 360 and 100 horses more for less money.

The new Mustang is cool too, harks back nicely to the 60s models and is pretty damn cheap to boot.

[Edited on 27/1/04 by mackie]

Not WHICH car!!! WHAT makes beautiful cars beautiful?

I like the more rounded shapes from the 60's. I think it's the fact that those shapes reflect whats around them in a dazzling way.

I also visually like when tight (hot) women wear really tight pants. The shape of a womans ass is very important when I think about attractiveness. That shape correlates to the shape of the cars fenders. A car should have a waspy waist line with big round fenders over the back tires.

Alan's new Meerkat design does that better than his original design and the new design is much more attractive.

I think Alan should have a moulded pair of tits on the front.

It will add an enormous amount of class to it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Metal Hippy
I think Alan should have a moulded pair of tits on the front.

It will add an enormous amount of class to it.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Metal Hippy
I think Alan should have a moulded pair of tits on the front.

It will add an enormous amount of class to it.

---

quote :

"
To me the best looking cars came out from around 1960 onward, upto about mid to late seventies. Oh what a coincidence that coincides with my youth!
"


That period also encompasses the ford anglia, the austin allegro, and the maxi



atb

steve

my dad had a maxi,

you could drop the rear seats perfectly flat the same size as a double bed


absolutly shite car apart from that feature

strangely, thats the only thing people remember the car for.

wish my dad had one I could borrow when I was 18.

One of those wheelchair vans would be more appropriate soon

atb

steve

Indeed, what makes ANYTHING beautiful?

With cars, a big chunk of beauty is in integration of form with function, IMO. Notice that when people criticize cars, the comments are along the lines of "rear lights look like they were stuck on", "windshield has too much slope", stuff like that. They're aware of inconsistencies that are contrary to the essential nature of the car.

That's why sports cars of the sixties look so good to us old-timers, and not so hot to the younger generation, I think. The cars were built to the then-current state of the art of aerodynamics. To us old guys, nostalgia pre-empts reason. Nostalgia's a big factor, too, and I think it's the card the US automakers are playing now, just in case their form vs. function takes a shit.

There's a little more than form vs. function at work, though, because there are a bunch of way you can package components. That's where pure art comes into the picture. An artist knows that certain forms are satisfying, and plays them for effect like a composer uses certain chords or rythm to produce emotion. A lot of these shapes come from nature, therefore all the comparisons to animals, faces, women's bodies, etc.

A prevailing theory about art is that it's the creation of reality from an idea, so keeping the theme consistent throughout is very important to maintaining the illusion of something that could have been created in nature.

Una más cerveza, por favor.

The thing I remember first about the Maxi is it was the first car with a true fifth gear, and the inner sills were guaranteed to rot away from the front floor, doddle to weld though and a nice easy job for a tenner.

yours, Pete.

now this is a great looking car with curves - dont look like any girl I know

can anyone name it?

atb

steve
Rescued attachment Image3.jpg

i dunno, but one to avoid is those bloody morgans...

quote:

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Originally posted by JoelP
i dunno, but one to avoid is those bloody morgans...

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Gusterson, I think it looks like a late 30's Delahaye. But the bumper gives it away as something newer. Is it a reproduction?

The lines are certainly beautiful and elegant.

do tell.

Graber

I maintain cars don't need curves.

Just a pair of moulded tits on the front.

Proportion, proportion, proportion... and simplicity.

For long bonnet FR cars, compare and contrast: Jaguar E-type (S1/S2) vs Ferrari Daytona. One is curved, where one is a combination of curves and edges - but both are perfectly proportioned. Even the 'tuckunder' wheels of the E-Type look right, because those wheelarches droop down *just*enough*. Both simply drawn and executed cars, with just enough sexy detail - the vast majority of it functional.

Many people consider the Aston Martin DB7 to be a very, very attractive car. I won't disagree, but the new DB9 is an altogether simpler (and IMHO more attractive) design. Now compare the DB9 to the DB6 - see the simplicity of line shared between the two? If you want a good laugh, compare the DB9 to the Mercedes SL500 (AMG if you like) and tell me which you'd buy with your $150k.

For middies, try Lambo Muira, then look at the Countach, it's successor. Both 'wow' cars, but for diametrically differing reasons. I couldn't describe a Countach as having any element of female anatomy in it whatsoever, but doesn't it sit there and yell 'I am flipping fast and as funky as heck, so come drive me like you stole me!'?

Now contrast the 365GT4BB, with it's successor, the Testarossa. See what I mean about simplicity? Even the Boxer isn't the best proportioned mid-engined Ferrari - try the 246 Dino, or 250LM. I still think the 308GTB is prettier than all of it's successors.

I think the Lotus Europa is one of the most attractive cars ever made - many people say that about the original Lotus Elite. Such low clutter design is just fab.

And this simplicity is why the Japanese don't do classical pretty so well. Oriental design is all about attention to detail... and thus focus on detail. Look at the NSX. A reasonably attractive and efficient design, but lacking in clear form and fluidity found in spades in the Ferrari 308.

Compare and contrast - mkI MR2 with its inspiration, the Fiat X1/9. No curves on them, but doesn't the Fiat look prettier, cleaner, less 'fast-food'?

They can do it - the original Toyota 2000GT - top marks. Even the late model Toyota Supra has it's butch bulldog charm, and I drive an interesting example of Japanese design - the '94 Mitsubishi FTO. It's strengths are more packaging than styling, but its still one of the prettiest small coupe's for the money - better than an Integra or the new RSX.

[/hobbyhorse]

I enjoyed that. Now I'm going to bed.

M.

Mr graber

GT addict got it right in a u2u

its a 1938 talbot lago T150SS

atb

steve

Next car, Mr. G??

It's a beauty

yeah - i wished I was building one when I discovered it a few months ago. However, there are a fair few complex curves in the wheelarch areas....the pic doesnt give justice to quite how big the front wings / fenders are!

atb

steve

GTAddict sort of hit the nail on the head a bit I think.
But beauty doesn't have to be the sole preserve of expensive coupes and supercars. Particularly with cars I think beauty can be found in the execution and elegance of it's entire design and packaging. Humble cars like the mini, it's a fantastic looking car that pretty much everyone loves and it still looks the same today (although twice the size ).
Aston Martin do it very well, although they had made some duffers (Lagonda anyone?) they have made some simply gorgeous cars in their time, and they seem to be getting better. I don't think any other maker can boast such a beautiful lineup as the Vanquish, DB9 and AMV8, all stunning.
However I think my fave supercar design has to be the Ferarri 288GTO, it just has a perfect balance of sensual curvyness and hard edged agression. It was also voted Evo magazine's favourate Ferarri hypercar of all time so that helps too

quote:

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Originally posted by Metal Hippy
I think Alan should have a moulded pair of tits on the front.

It will add an enormous amount of class to it.

---

Alan,

it'd solve your problem of where to put the lights anyway...

quote:

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Originally posted by GTAddict
and I drive an interesting example of Japanese design - the '94 Mitsubishi FTO. It's strengths are more packaging than styling, but its still one of the prettiest small coupe's for the money - better than an Integra or the new RSX.

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Rescued attachment mini cooper paint1.jpg

Hoorah!

In my view there are several things that make a car beautiful - visual interest, proportions and continuity, design in keeping with function, purity.

Smooth curves are more likely to produce looks with longer lasting "beauty" due to their increased visual interest - a flat sheet of metal requires no real though, there's nothing to process or consider, it's easily sumarised. Too many/too complex curves can go too far though - the shape must be able to be considered as a whole, all of the parts must appear to act as a single unit.

Often, very simple/flat designs hold their beauty in singularity of purpose.

In my view, the most beautiful car on the market is the Lambourghini Galardo - it strikes a perfect balance between simplicity and interest. It has relatively few details, but those is does have are in keeping with the cars character. It is at the same time striking, memorable and simple.

Kingr

quote:

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Originally posted by flyingkiwi

quote:

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Originally posted by GTAddict
and I drive an interesting example of Japanese design - the '94 Mitsubishi FTO.

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My wife wants to have your baby's. She's got a 96 FTO GR and thinks it's (and this is a quote straight from her gob) "Sex on F***king wheels, and would have married it if I could"

It's just a shame its a bit under powered and the immobilizer doesn't like me and leaves me stranded in a Tesco's petrol station for an hour, in the snow, before suddenly bursting into life.

---

My fav car of all time has got to be the E-type 4.2 fhc

nothing in my view (distorted) has or will come close

It is also the first car I ever drove (at 16)
A friend was rebuilding one, and before the respray let me drive it down our road
up to then it had been bsa bantams and suzuki ap 50's
I seem to remember my dad would not talk to me for days , as he had never even been in one

I did buy a "us" spec 3.8 flat floor convertable several years ago, that was a rust bucket but when my wife found out, she made me sell it to pay the overdraft !!
The new owner spent 30k rebuilding it
and sold it back to the us for just under 50k 14k profit what a bugger

Steve.....funny that, the E-type...I know many people love it too, but personally I don't...

IMO, the windscreen is too high and upright...

Am I the only person who doesn't care for it so much?

I never understood the infactuation with the e-type either - sure it's a nice car, but nothing to get excited about (just my 2 cents).

Mark

if i won the lottery, id rather have an open top pristine series one jag e type than a ferrari any day

atb

steve

ps - I had a bsa bantam D14 once - but never an E type

[Edited on 31/1/04 by stephen_gusterson]

Was it a red one and you worked for the post office? Them wer't days. Telegram sir.

yours, Pete.

my bantam was a d7 i think

but the E-type I drove was carman red
does that mean it belonged to the post office

also
Alan, I agreee about the windscreen on the E-type, but with the FHC the blend seems much smoother


steve

Spot on with the 288GTO. I used to go to Brunel Uni and every now and then took a trip to Egham to see the classic Ferrari's at a garage there. The day they had a GTO in, I went straight in and asked to have a good look at it. Ah, happy days.

How's about really ugleeee cars then... but real corkers - cars that should have been crushed before even being built... Someone mentioned the Porsche Cayenne. Whenever I see one on the road, I just point directly at the driver and start an exaggerated comic laugh. It's going to get my butt kicked one day, I'm sure, but these people deserve to know that they are stupid for buying an ugly version of the VW Toe-rag just because of the badge.

One minor vote for ugly is the face of the recent Morgan Aero 8. Even Charlize Theron would be a moose if she was as boss-eyed as the Aero... I don't know what they were thinking. Sorry SG, but that's my take on it. However, the rest of the car is class. Which means we need a new champion of hideousness.

I meant to keep my copy of Autocar with the photo of the VBS Census in it to remind me that if ever I decided to build a car and attempt to sell it to other people and it looked quite as bad as that, then I should be immediately taken outside and shot. To see what I mean (make sure you have a bag handy) look here: http://www.fbscars.co.uk/matt.htm

Mark.

"I disagree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire.

Mark, you may know already, but, there was a lot of talk on Pistonheads forum about the Census.

Concensus was "guys, it's a well engineered motor, but the looks just don't work".....they seemed to just ignore what was at least 95% of the opinion, and spend time defending the looks.....bear in mind also that this was a forum made up of a high percentage of potential buyers....

Sadly, as they say, the rest is history...

good lord, i saw the nose and wasnt terribly put off by it, but the 3rd picture down is appalling! its like a back to front multipla...

Yeah, the British cottage car industry is a real hit-and-miss affair. Where are the scores of Jensen SV8s? What about those new Lea-Francis'? It's such a shame.

Actually, if you looked at the original sketches of the Census, it did show some promise - to be striking in a similar way to, say, the Countach - but what did they lose inbetween sketch and prototype? Proportion.

I wasn't party to the Pistonheads discussion - and I don't doubt the on-road ability of the car - it wouldn't have got press if everything about it sucked. Trouble is, people don't buy an open top two seater on ability alone - they want to go out and pose in it... which brings us back to the Attack. I think the Attack looks pretty good - it has has all the right flashy bits and enough guts on show to make (most) people think it is some sort of track renegade.

Viewing it all the other way around, to quote an American drag racer maxim: "If you can't be fast, be loud, if you can't be loud, be pretty."

I seem to have done a lot of spouting off recently, so I'm going to shut up for a while. Maybe I'll pick up the hobbyhorse when I've got my own rolling buck to show off (and be flamed about!)

But if it ain't fast, loud and pretty, then I'll probaby stay quiet.

M.

A pic of the Morgan Aero 8. I dunno I thought it looked lovely!

Nope - it was an 8 year old privatly owned one in navy blue - but I did spray it red. Only had it a few months until the publicist of lords cricket ground pulled out in front of me in a toyota corolla. Bike was wrecked and I went several yeards down the road head first.


atb

steve

quote:

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Originally posted by Peteff
Was it a red one and you worked for the post office? Them wer't days. Telegram sir.

yours, Pete.

---

For me,As someone said earlier its different from eye to eye.Its curves.Look at the aero 8.Curves.Big long cuvres.Jags(most of them)curves.Small and large depending on whic model.All relates back to the shape of Ladies in a phycological sort of way I suppose.Tvrs.Curves.curves.curves..

No .This should break my restraining order.

sorry but you just gotta get a look at this lot! - check out the concept cars

http://www.rinspeed.com/

especially the X-Trem - eurghhhhh!

but the tattoo has an underwater motorscooter.....

kinda like the E-Go though and the lotus 7 inspired 'Roadster R+SCR' is err - different!

quote:

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Originally posted by alister667
A pic of the Morgan Aero 8. I dunno I thought it looked lovely!

---

For me it's an engineering thing mainly. But I seem to have different tastes to the masses.

Many people rave about the Alfa Brera being beautiful - I can't stand it:


Many people rave about the TT being a design icon - I think it's positively dull.

Cars that float my boat either are engineering masterpieces or have curves in the right places (which often hides poor engineering!):

Damn search function and lack of observation. Ace. I think thats my best ever - 2004?! 7 years!

[Edited on 16/2/11 by coyoteboy]

Nearly spilt my coffee there

Beauty has nothing to do with curves