mistergrumpy
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 11:12 AM |
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Proud To Be British?
Well the Fire Brigade are on strike (again) over in Yorkshire I think it is. The bin men are on strike in Leeds. The bus drivers are going on srike in
Manchester and Royal Mail are going on strike too.
I think the days of the saying "proud to be British" are well gone.
Is this the beginning of new Britain? A nation of whinging, alcohol fuelled, "don't want to work/ don't have to work because
I've a whole ream of kids that can't be controlled" losers I wonder?
It gets my goat just thinking about it 
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 11:23 AM |
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Jeezo you're on as big a downer as me at the moment.
Your feelings match my sentiments EXACTLY
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 11:25 AM |
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And I've got work work starting in an hour and half! Still, it'll be an interesting night for some lucky soul in the van. I've just
eaten a plate full of beans! 
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carpmart
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 11:26 AM |
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The trouble is, if they have a genuine dispute with the employers, the unions cloud it all over to create a 'clever' negotiation position
rather being straight. This means there is no trust between unions and management. No trust means no easy settlement which means dispute!
With industrial action (striking) this is not effective as it is invariably not hard hitting or painful enough to have major impact. The French and
their socialist outlook have a reasonable amount of worker (individual) power and mass protests do get noticed. That is not the case with the British
workforce.
The solution is pretty clear to me. The unions should raise the important issues and not cloud negotiations with trivia! The unions, should striking
on that important issue be the only course of action, should make it count and make it painful. The reality is that they can't because of the
legislation brought in the 80's to remove union power. The unions have no one to blame but themselves as they abused this power! Abuse
something and you invariably loose it!
BTW - I have no political, union or management view, this is just my incomprehensible musings!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack 
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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coozer
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 11:30 AM |
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Well, they on strike and I'm on the dole.. I'll SWAP them..
And, guess what? sorry no working tax credit for you, you've no kids! Bastards. Turns out when I've been without an income for a FULL tax
year then I can claim it the year AFTER!
WTF did I pay £500 a month tax and insurance for the last 12 years??
There's no jobs here but apparently the knobhead in the dole reckons I'm not doing enough to find a job.. I gave her a blank stare
thinking "I'm not really looking for one you dozy cow"
So, yes still proud to be British but tend to keep it to myself these days.... anyway back to studying for the theory test...
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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MikeR
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 12:18 PM |
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I'm finding myself increasingly frustrated with society ..... to the point i'm actually thinking of investigating how to become an MP.
Always believed if you complain about it, you should do something about it.
So as i keep complaining about it ..... i need to follow my own advice.
Watched something on the midlands midday tv yesterday. Councils are bringing in equal pay for sexes. The union stated they've got the best deal
they could possibly negotiate. So ....... they've taken the council to court to get a better deal. The council has stated its got 30million put
aside, if they lose they'll have to pay out up to 50 million which will mean job cuts.
Union response, we don't want anyone to lose their jobs but we want whats right for our members and they deserve a bigger pay out. For gods sake
- WAKE UP, you carry on and you're members will be out of work and every one else will be paying higher taxes to cover it.
The postie situation is annoying me as well as there is so much dis-information. Read an interesting postie blog where he questioned a lot of things
and stated some others. If you take half of what each side says is true the truth is a pretty rare thing.
We need someone to start banging heads together and kicking the occasional ass!
Policies when i'm an MP - compulsory parenting classes for everyone about to have a child. Everyone with a kid under 10 when the policy is
introduced also has to go within 24 months. This includes an idiots style guide book (written by haynes?) to explain the stuff that is common sense to
80% of the population.
Out of season tax (food) - you want something that isn't in season in the uk, by all means go to the supermarket and buy it but its got a 50%
tax applied to cover the greenhouse issues of growing and transporting it.
Power - invest in green technology as well as sort out the infrastructure ..... oh and build some new power stations before our existing ones fall to
bits. ie let David McKay run our energy policy.
Speed Cameras - sorry lads, they stay. The revenue is ploughed 50% into policing and 50% into the local community- including road maintenance.
Paperwork for all criminal (police, court etc) areas is reviewed to produce one set of simple documents that need completing once. Police targets are
measured at a force / district level. Not at an individual level. Allow local police to deal with issues locally - quiet words etc. Don't
measure how many people you lock up / caution - but how many reports of a problem you get.
NHS .......... ooooh..... everyone gets taken outside and given a good talking too. Anyone who does a "not my job" from a cleaner to a
hospital director gets more than a good talking too. Too many people who are trying their best are hampered by too many people who need to understand
the job is what ever is needed, not what you did 10 years ago. The entire system is then reviewed including social services etc so the gaps /
bottlenecks are removed, things flow through the system.
Newpapers - have to print retractions & clarifications using the same amount of space they printed the original article. Simple law, will soon
sort out the rubbish they make up. Should see an end to "Beans gives you cancer" headlines!
Jeremy Kyle - he's banned from the telly. Sorry, this is unjust but he winds me up with his terrible program. I watched him slaughter a woman
with post baby blues when i was off ill once.
........ yes, i'm ranting, just getting frustrated with lots of things in the UK at the moment!
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coozer
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 12:45 PM |
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Bloody hell Mike, more rules! Classes for parents? Thought that came naturally, well it did to me all those years ago.. its lack of respect brought on
by governemnt policy thats to blame. Thatcher started it and Blair carried it on...
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Benzine
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 12:53 PM |
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i'm very proud of the centurues of bloodshed and oppression caused by my lovely britain
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smart51
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 01:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
to the point i'm actually thinking of investigating how to become an MP.
We need someone to start banging heads together and kicking the occasional ass!
I'll join you. Are you going to start the Common Sense and a Clip 'Round the Ear Party?
Can I add some more policies?
2) End the idiotic policies where you can be better off on benefits than in work. I've already devised a scheme where for every pound you earn,
you're better off than not earning it and you're NEVER better off not working, so it can be done. The answers are then simple.
You're benefits are not enough to live on? Get a job.
2) You've got to work for a living if you can. Unemployment benefits are for those BETWEEN jobs. You have to have had one first and must go
to one again. And not just for 2 weeks at a time. Why should those of us who work to provide for families give you some of that money to sit on your
arse?
3) Roads, busses and trains. Either make them work or reduce our need (as a society) to use them. We don't commute for fun and taxing us
won't solve the problem.
3a) build a high speed rail network between Great Britain's 20 biggest cities that doesn't stop at every town in between. This will
reduce many internal flights that are more polluting. Make them all stop at Heathrow and have a DIRECT link to the channel tunnel, not have to
transfer via tube train.
3b) Improve road junctions to improve traffic flow, separating National and Regional traffic from local traffic where possible
3c) Make public transport systems in our cities that are actually usable and are not just a last resort. We did it for Hong Kong, do it here.
4) build more houses. Ever increasing prices are not a good thing no matter what journalists say. Houses cost 2x more now than when I bought mine.
Who can afford that?
5) End the Pro-London bias that means everything in the country has to be near London. The capital already has the 2 largest airports in the country.
The new one in the Thames estuary AS WELL AS Heathrow and Gatwick and Stanstead and Luton should be built nearer the rest of the population.
6) Actually do something to stop antisocial behaviour / knife crime / gang murder etc. Prisons are full. Build some more then. Too expensive? Make
the prisoners work for their keep. They're not there to be on holiday. Make them contribute to their own upkeep.
7) Children. Lovely when treated well. Nightmares on legs when left to run riot. Offer free parenting classes to all parents at each stage in a
child's development. Make them compulsory for paren't whose children repeat offend (everyones kids get up to no good once in a while, it
is the persistant ones that are a nuisance). Parents are resonsible for thier kids. Hold them responsible. Help those who genuinely don't
know what to do. Make those who don't care do something. Make something stronger than ASBOs for those kids who are uncontrolable. Stop the
silly policy of wiping Kids criminal records at 18. 17 year olds know that they can act with impunity. Instead, make the record stick for 5 years
after the crime for normal offences and for life for more heinous crimes. Give teachers more powers to punish pupils. Giving them days off for bad
behaviour is not a deterrent.
6) The NHS. Decide what its for. We, as a nation, want it to be a gold plated treat everything on demand service yet we whinge like ba5tards if
someone suggests we pay an extra penny in income tax to fund it. We need to decide what we're willing to pay and what we can get for it then
write it down and do it. You just can't have £1,000,000 pound a dose cancer treatments if you only pay 99p per person per year into the NHS.
Britain has lost its way a bit recently. We're a fine nation who have just lost a bit of direction. Our current crop of follow-their-nose
opportunist politicians have no leadership and no direction. They just want to be in power. We need leaders who have a plan and want TO DO SOMETHING
to take us into the rest of the 21st century. I'm coming to the point of view that if no-one else is going to do it, I'll have to.
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nick205
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 01:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
to the point i'm actually thinking of investigating how to become an MP.
We need someone to start banging heads together and kicking the occasional ass!
I'll join you. Are you going to start the Common Sense and a Clip 'Round the Ear Party?
Can I add some more policies?
2) End the idiotic policies where you can be better off on benefits than in work. I've already devised a scheme where for every pound you earn,
you're better off than not earning it and you're NEVER better off not working, so it can be done. The answers are then simple.
You're benefits are not enough to live on? Get a job.
2) You've got to work for a living if you can. Unemployment benefits are for those BETWEEN jobs. You have to have had one first and must go
to one again. And not just for 2 weeks at a time. Why should those of us who work to provide for families give you some of that money to sit on your
arse?
3) Roads, busses and trains. Either make them work or reduce our need (as a society) to use them. We don't commute for fun and taxing us
won't solve the problem.
3a) build a high speed rail network between Great Britain's 20 biggest cities that doesn't stop at every town in between. This will
reduce many internal flights that are more polluting. Make them all stop at Heathrow and have a DIRECT link to the channel tunnel, not have to
transfer via tube train.
3b) Improve road junctions to improve traffic flow, separating National and Regional traffic from local traffic where possible
3c) Make public transport systems in our cities that are actually usable and are not just a last resort. We did it for Hong Kong, do it here.
4) build more houses. Ever increasing prices are not a good thing no matter what journalists say. Houses cost 2x more now than when I bought mine.
Who can afford that?
5) End the Pro-London bias that means everything in the country has to be near London. The capital already has the 2 largest airports in the country.
The new one in the Thames estuary AS WELL AS Heathrow and Gatwick and Stanstead and Luton should be built nearer the rest of the population.
6) Actually do something to stop antisocial behaviour / knife crime / gang murder etc. Prisons are full. Build some more then. Too expensive? Make
the prisoners work for their keep. They're not there to be on holiday. Make them contribute to their own upkeep.
7) Children. Lovely when treated well. Nightmares on legs when left to run riot. Offer free parenting classes to all parents at each stage in a
child's development. Make them compulsory for paren't whose children repeat offend (everyones kids get up to no good once in a while, it
is the persistant ones that are a nuisance). Parents are resonsible for thier kids. Hold them responsible. Help those who genuinely don't
know what to do. Make those who don't care do something. Make something stronger than ASBOs for those kids who are uncontrolable. Stop the
silly policy of wiping Kids criminal records at 18. 17 year olds know that they can act with impunity. Instead, make the record stick for 5 years
after the crime for normal offences and for life for more heinous crimes. Give teachers more powers to punish pupils. Giving them days off for bad
behaviour is not a deterrent.
6) The NHS. Decide what its for. We, as a nation, want it to be a gold plated treat everything on demand service yet we whinge like ba5tards if
someone suggests we pay an extra penny in income tax to fund it. We need to decide what we're willing to pay and what we can get for it then
write it down and do it. You just can't have £1,000,000 pound a dose cancer treatments if you only pay 99p per person per year into the NHS.
Britain has lost its way a bit recently. We're a fine nation who have just lost a bit of direction. Our current crop of follow-their-nose
opportunist politicians have no leadership and no direction. They just want to be in power. We need leaders who have a plan and want TO DO SOMETHING
to take us into the rest of the 21st century. I'm coming to the point of view that if no-one else is going to do it, I'll have to.
^^^^ you've been working on this for some time then???
I would have to concur with your direction here.
On a smaller and more local level I've recently started getting involved with some cycle route campaigning and speed limit changes. Small
things, but it's quite a good feeling knowing your involved in making changes for the better
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flak monkey
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 02:05 PM |
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Agreed with Mike and Mr 51 very common sense, but difficult to do.
E.g build more houses - ok if you relax the green field site laws, which then probably open up some other issues, same goes for prisons. Throughly
agree with making people in prison pay their way in one way or another though, which I believe is still how most prisons are run in the US?
Sadly most politicians wouldnt dare say any of those things though as apparently it would upset too many people and the EU would probably say that you
can't by law or something equally as stupid
I am not proud to be British, theres not much to be proud of at the moment I dont think. Given half a chance I would be off. I know things are always
greener though and every place has its problems.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 02:12 PM |
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Can I just build a high wall round my house to keep all you rule makers out?
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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smart51
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 02:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Can I just build a high wall round my house to keep all you rule makers out?
I am liberal in the sense that liberAL comes from the same root as LiberTY. Do what you want, so long as it doesn't affect anyone else.
As regards your objection, I don't want more rules, I want more action. There are too many rules and I would reduce and simplify those that
already exist. I'd try enforcing a few though.
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carpmart
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 02:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Can I just build a high wall round my house to keep all you rule makers out?
No! Were all in this together!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 02:39 PM |
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My policies:
You can do whatever you want unless it affects the freedoms and rights of another. Drugs are fine, drink is fine, speeding is fine, do literally
whatever you want.
Tax is drastically rolled back to a flat income tax and fixed rates dependent on what you want to do (i.e. just a road tax, not tax on car purchases +
fuel if you want to drive, which goes into maintaining public infrastructure). Government rolled back to a bare bones structure to allow this taxation
and infrastructure maintainence.
No NHS, welfare system rolled back to only the seriously in need. Prison system rolled back as space is no longer needed for minor offenders. Keep
some high security units for those dangerous to society (murderers, rapists). Going back to my first point about freedoms, if you injure somebody
while doing something dangerous then you pay for it. If you kill someone while doing something irresponsible then youre classed as a serious offender
and youre f*cked. Focus on reabilitation for minor offenders i.e. skag addicts.
Truely free market economy where the only legal restrictions are on companies affecting the freedoms of the public.
Roll back the military to fill a defensive role only.
Legal/justice system mainly kept as it is to allow protection of freedoms and punish those that restrict them.
Foreign policy restricted to allow diplomacy but not "meddling".
Well developed private insurance schemes set up to allow for healthcare/unemployment etc.
Stick that in your pipes and smoke it  
Craig
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smart51
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 03:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
My policies:
You can do whatever you want unless it affects the freedoms and rights of another. Drugs are fine, drink is fine, speeding is fine, do literally
whatever you want.
Almost Anarchist Policy. Do anything you like but suffer the consequences. The weak get trampled over. Mess with someone bigger than you
and get pounded. Drink and drive but kill someone and you're in prison for ever. Result - an ever decreasing social system leading to anarchy
and vigilante terror groups exacting revenge and extorting protection money. Ultimately civil war
Tax is drastically rolled back to a flat income tax and fixed rates dependent on what you want to do (i.e. just a road tax, not tax on car purchases +
fuel if you want to drive, which goes into maintaining public infrastructure). Government rolled back to a bare bones structure to allow this taxation
and infrastructure maintainence.
Extreme Right Wing Capitalist Policy. An underlying tory policy that was the root of the Community Charge AKA poll tax. Result then:
riots and Thatcher losing her job. General results: those who a rich enough can buy anything they like. Those who can't have to do without.
No NHS, welfare system rolled back to only the seriously in need. Prison system rolled back as space is no longer needed for minor offenders. Keep
some high security units for those dangerous to society (murderers, rapists). Going back to my first point about freedoms, if you injure somebody
while doing something dangerous then you pay for it. If you kill someone while doing something irresponsible then youre classed as a serious offender
and youre f*cked. Focus on reabilitation for minor offenders i.e. skag addicts.
Extreme Right Wing Capitalist Policy. Earn minimum wage and have cancer? You'll just have to die then 'cos you can't
afford the treatment. Bright kid but parents unemployed? No education for you, your life is screwed because of nothing you did.
Truely free market economy where the only legal restrictions are on companies affecting the freedoms of the public.
Extreme Right Wing Capitalist Policy. Irish potato famine. "leave it to the market - that will sort it out". Except the
market only wanted to make money and the poor had none.
Roll back the military to fill a defensive role only.
Some would say that this is a good idea. Other's say there has to be some sort of global military force and the UK as the 6th
largest economy in the world (thanks China!) should contribute. I agree this should only be things under UN mandate, not US.
Legal/justice system mainly kept as it is to allow protection of freedoms and punish those that restrict them.
Foreign policy restricted to allow diplomacy but not "meddling".
Well developed private insurance schemes set up to allow for healthcare/unemployment etc.
Stick that in your pipes and smoke it
You are of course entitled to your political views. I don't share them.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 03:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Can I just build a high wall round my house to keep all you rule makers out?
No! Were all in this together!
I reject your reality and substitute my own
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 04:25 PM |
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haha, knew it would provoke some interest. Completely impossible social structure starting from where we are now so its completely ridiculous
Libertarian foundations though btw, not right wing.
Craig
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scootz
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 07:15 PM |
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There's definitely something simmering just now... hopefully it will boil over soon and the silent-majority will make their frustrations known
and force change!
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JoelP
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 08:04 PM |
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but as you can see from this thread scootz, even on this forum we all have different opinions. Would we legalise all drugs to empty the prisions, or
build more places? If drugs were legal then assumedly, drug pushing would also be legal - i dont fancy that.
Legalise speeding? Not for me thanks. Again, thats a recipe for distaster.
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scootz
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 09:02 PM |
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Sure, but putting specific laws to one side, there's still a generic set of social rules that have been allowed to slide by the wayside in
favour of absurd political correctness and pure downright short-sightedness and it needs to be addressed.
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graememk
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| posted on 19/10/09 at 09:03 PM |
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i'll be living in cyprus before i'm 40.....
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RK
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| posted on 20/10/09 at 12:39 AM |
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Well, it sounds like there will be another large line up to get into our fine place then. People don't really change over the years do they?
This is the 1970's starting again: bad economy, workers' rights front and centre... Yikes. Best of luck to you all.
You have a nice country. You have to take care of it.
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smart51
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| posted on 20/10/09 at 07:05 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RK
This is the 1970's starting again
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Benzine
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| posted on 20/10/09 at 07:20 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RK
This is the 1970's starting again
Awesome prog rock again?  
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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