daz
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 posted on 13/11/05 at 10:25 PM |
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ARC welding
ive decided to buy myself this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7560903658&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1
and these..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7562897524&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1
i have a very vague idea of how to weld, but could anyone dish out some advice/tips before i start wasting my welding rods on scrap metal, i have no
idea what current setting to have it on either 
any help is greatly appreciated 
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the_fbi
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| posted on 13/11/05 at 10:36 PM |
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The welder will most likely have the general rod size next to the current setting on the scale. Whilst its rough, it will give you a good starting
point.
I'll send you a u2u with a good manual too....
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Confused but excited.
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 posted on 13/11/05 at 10:40 PM |
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You could do what I did.
Local night school welding course.
Cost £60 for ten 2hr sessions.
Covered gas, stick and mig. By week four half had dropped out, leaving the rest of us make and do pretty much what we liked.
Then I got a cheap mig set, 'cos it is easier then the other methods.
Good luck!
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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daz
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| posted on 13/11/05 at 10:44 PM |
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thanks for the replies, my brother has done a bit of welding before and said if i can ARC weld then ill be able to do other types more easily, i just
bought it because i didnt want the bother of buying gas or anything, just want to plug and play n see how i get on, allways prefered the hands on
approach, im thinking about a welding and fabrication course as soon as ive passed my driving test.
would this ARC welder be any good for making a chassis for a car in the future once im good at welding, or will it merely be a good starting point for
a metal spice rack?
[Edited on 13/11/05 by daz]
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 13/11/05 at 10:57 PM |
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It would be ok for welding up a chassis, but skill levels would need to be high
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Triton
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| posted on 13/11/05 at 11:00 PM |
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ooo how to make hard work for yourself
My Daughter has taken over production of the damn fine Triton race seats and her contact email is emmatrs@live.co.uk.
www.tritonraceseats.com
www.hairyhedgehog.com
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 13/11/05 at 11:02 PM |
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so much easier for getting into those hard to get to places
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Triton
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| posted on 13/11/05 at 11:21 PM |
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Not easy to use though if never done any welding before.....stick...ooo yer git....stick...ooo yer git.....glow....fuse popped!
My Daughter has taken over production of the damn fine Triton race seats and her contact email is emmatrs@live.co.uk.
www.tritonraceseats.com
www.hairyhedgehog.com
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Kowalski
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| posted on 13/11/05 at 11:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daz
thanks for the replies, my brother has done a bit of welding before and said if i can ARC weld then ill be able to do other types more easily, i just
bought it because i didnt want the bother of buying gas or anything, just want to plug and play n see how i get on, allways prefered the hands on
approach, im thinking about a welding and fabrication course as soon as ive passed my driving test.
would this ARC welder be any good for making a chassis for a car in the future once im good at welding, or will it merely be a good starting point for
a metal spice rack?
[Edited on 13/11/05 by daz]
Arc welders are difficult to get to grips with on thin material, they have a tendancy to burn holes in things. In fact, I've seen an arc welder
used deliberately to burn holes in an exhaust flange that was made from 1/4" steel plate ... the tubing on a locost is rather thinner than
that.
You can get gasless mig welders, they use a special mig wire which contains something that gives off gas, mig is much easier if you're a
beginner but since you've already bought the welder its kind of academic.
Start with thin rods and low current and let us know how you get on.
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daz
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 01:03 AM |
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im gonna be starting off with thin 1.6mm rods as apparantly these are the thinnest i can use with my setup, and i just happened to have a grandfather
who spent the whole of his life welding theres also 30ft of scaffold pole ready to be cut up and welded back together, shall let you all know how
my welding/hole making gets on 
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jonbeedle
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 01:42 AM |
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Tell me about it! If you don't know what you're doing, this method of welding is a pain in the arc!
"Everyone is entitled to an opinion however stupid!"
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DorsetStrider
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 10:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daz
thanks for the replies, my brother has done a bit of welding before and said if i can ARC weld then ill be able to do other types more easily, i just
bought it because i didnt want the bother of buying gas or anything, just want to plug and play n see how i get on, allways prefered the hands on
approach, im thinking about a welding and fabrication course as soon as ive passed my driving test.
would this ARC welder be any good for making a chassis for a car in the future once im good at welding, or will it merely be a good starting point for
a metal spice rack?
[Edited on 13/11/05 by daz]
Although it ARC welders could be used to weld a chassis if you are using 25x25x1.6mm mild steel as the book suggests I think you'll find it
tough going to weld that without blowing big holes.
Personally I'd advise getting yourself a MIG welder for chassis etc. I would however point out that ARC is perfect for welding 3mm thick steel
for roll over bars, wishbones etc.
Who the f**K tightened this up!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 11:41 AM |
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I did a one-day welding course at the local agricultural collage a few years back. I asked the instructor if it was possible to stick-weld really
thin stuff.
He picked up a couple of pieces of sheet thinner than 1mm thick, adjusted the welder settings and got some really thin rods. He then laid down a
prefect weld about 4" long. I asked him how long it took him to learn how to do that - "about 30 years" came the reply!
The same instructor did a fillet weld into the angle between some 3mm strips. He put down the weld, stood up and said "if you've done it
right, the slag will just curl off" - CLICK - "just like that!". The slag came away with just a touch of the hammer, leaving an
immaculate weld. Smart *rse!
So yes, you can stick weld a chassis - if you're REALLY good...
rgds,
David
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daz
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 04:14 PM |
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well then ill get the ball rolling with arc first then and may treat myself to a gasless mig for christmas  just wish i learnt how to weld a
long time ago, still theres plenty of time 
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 14/11/05 at 05:27 PM |
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Get some bits of scrap square tube, and try welding them together. Try to beat them apart with a big hammer.
If you don't blow holes everywhere, and the tube gets flattened before he welds give way (or the steel itself tears) then maybe you're
good enough to tackle the chassis!
David
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robertst
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| posted on 17/11/05 at 04:23 PM |
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i just bought my arc welder and did some test runs. i used 1.6mm tubes, similar to those i will use for my chassis and i used 2mm welding rods and it
went pretty fine! it took some effort to blow a hole in the tube! and the welds are pretty strong!.
i then decided to make a frame, pretty cool for a painting! i'm loving this!
i have many doubts though... is that black soot which is left after welding poisonous in any way?
what tools can i get to cut metal? i have tried the silliest method, which is using a metal saw, and it is a pain in the neck. what do you people use
to cut the tubes, panels etc?
[Edited on 17/11/05 by robertst]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 17/11/05 at 04:50 PM |
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Make sure that you do destruction and penetration tests before you do anything serious...
The destruction test is to abuse the joint with a large hammer and see what breaks - it must not be the weld that goes first.
The penetration test is where you make your weld, hacksaw across it and see how well the joint is made through the weld. You might have to file it
flat to get a good idea. There should a neat and tidy bit of a weld fillet on the back of the joint.
I would avoid eating the slag that remains, together with any dust and muck left lying around the weld! Your biggest concern should be the smoke and
fumes that fill the air around your head - they are not nice. Also watch out for flying pieces when you chip off the slag, as it's as hard as
glass and just as brittle, and may well be very hot (wear eye protection).
It might be a good idea to post a couple of pictures here, showing the state of your welds - there are a few professional/skilled welders on this
forum who can offer their verdicts.
cheers,
David
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Gav
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| posted on 17/11/05 at 04:53 PM |
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My entire chassis was hand cut with a hacksaw! 
for the 3mm panels i bought a large (240mm?) grinder from b&q for about £25 which did a reasonable job
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robertst
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| posted on 17/11/05 at 08:22 PM |
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i will post some pics of my welds, as soon as i get more time with the solder. have to get more metal tho.
gav. U DID YOUR ENTIRE CHASSIS WITH A HACKSAW?!!!! i couldnt even cut a single tube today with one of those! i was thinking of buying a good blade
for my jig-saw and use that. i guess that will be faster than by hand
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caber
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| posted on 17/11/05 at 10:55 PM |
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A good hacksaw with a good blade will cut tube pretty well and quickly you do need to get good brand name blades such as Eclipse and a good solid
frame that you can tighten up well. Go to a good tool merchant and he will advise best number of teeth per inch for different materials and
thicknesses. Forget about the jigsaw on tube you will end up with lots of broken blades and sore wrists. Get an angle grinder, good for tidying up
metal messes and can be used to chop through bar and tube though not very accurately or tidy. Get a chop saw if you can afford one to cut steel tube
cleanly and accurately!
On the welding just keep practising with the arc until you are producing consistent good welds. Again buy good rods and keep them warm and dry. You
will take a good few weeks of consistent practice to get reasonably good.
I would avoid gasless mig its not much better than arc, go for a decent Mig not less than 130Amp, you can hire gas bottles by the day from Air
Products with a regulator built in probably the most cost efficient way to get Mig gas if you plan welding sessions to do a lot at once.
Practise and more practise experimenting with rod sizes and amps indicated on the machine until you get a feel for it, remember that actual amps and
indicated amps are not the same on cheap welders, if you can get a good welder to teach you so much the better.
Best of luck, it is good fun when you get the hang of it!
Caber
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 17/11/05 at 11:07 PM |
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I had serious noise constraints when I built my chassis, so it was hacksaw and file only. Get yourself some screwfix aerosol cutting oil, makes a
difference only your biceps will appreciate. If you can get them, get variable pitch hacksaw blades, they last for ages and cut SO WELL!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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robertst
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| posted on 18/11/05 at 07:42 PM |
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thanks i think i'll do that. now i know what i have done wrong! doh!
i bought one of these multi purpose saws with huuuge teeth!
i have welded today with 1.6mm rods and they are crap. i'll try 3.0mm tomorrow and have fun blowing holes i think i half nailed it. at first
the rods got stuck and the tip stared to glow, etc. but after reading a book and some advice from my gardener i got the hang of it.
ill send pics pretty soon.
cheers
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 18/11/05 at 09:34 PM |
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Try warming the rods first by laying down 1/2" first on a bit of scrap, makes the striking a bit easier. If arcing up a chassis, I would choose
Satinex 6013 2mm rods, so smooooth
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 18/11/05 at 10:30 PM |
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I agree with the Satinex rods - I've got a box of them and they make life so much easier.
One tip - keep your rods in the airing cupboard until you need them. They must be bone dry otherwise you'll get all sorts of problems. The
college I went to used to keep their rods in a cupboard with a small light bulb in the bottom, for the same reason.
Also, I hold a bit of scrap sheet under the earth clamp, and flash the end of the rod on it before starting the proper weld - this helps to prevent a
cold rod sticking on the work.
rgds,
David
[Edited on 18/11/05 by David Jenkins]
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daz
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| posted on 19/11/05 at 08:44 PM |
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my dad has had a word with the dude that delivers metalfor his rolls royce branch and is willing to let me have plenty of scrap metal for practice
welding, all he needs to know is what thickness steel i want and he'll sort me out, im using an ARC welder and e6013 welding rods 1.6mm, can
anyone suggest what sort of thickness to acquire for just practicing with that wont burn holes easily!
once ive mastered this ill get a MIG and start practising on the same box metal stuff for making chassis out of
[Edited on 19/11/05 by daz]
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