Wadders
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| posted on 3/5/05 at 11:14 PM |
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 are you having a laugh here or what? It's not rocket science, for most people, practice is all thats required to become a proficient
welder. Just remember, if it looks sh#t it probably is.
Al
Good welders like good painters are born not made, giving a natural welder good training only reduces the time it takes for them to develop inborn
talent and gives them enough knowledge of the properies of metals not to make potentially lethal mistakes.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 4/5/05 at 07:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JamJah
Heard I was slated for my post. Was paraphrasing the edexcel textbook for the BTEC in Welding. Did the course but didnt fancy £300 for the paper.
What you posted originally I believe to be the correct way for a TIG weld in aluminium to look (as you essentially dab the rod in at constant
intervals you end up with a weld that looks like (((((((). For MIG/MMA welds in steel they should be smooth as the wire/stick is fed in constantly.
Thats my limited understanding anyway.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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I love speed :-P
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| posted on 4/5/05 at 07:39 AM |
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surely the best way to test your welding, is how it brakes, ie i did a test peice at the begining of my build on 1 inch squ tube (16 swg) and the
metal broke before the weld, so if that happenes you need to worry about the metal not the welding.
Phil
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 4/5/05 at 07:54 AM |
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When it comes down to it, welding is a skill/art that needs practice, practice, practice.
Training is a major help, and constructive (destructive!) criticism is almost essential. When you're on your own you have to be your own
critic, and practice that much more!
David
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NS Dev
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| posted on 4/5/05 at 09:20 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clbarclay
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
quote:
Originally posted by clbarclay
As nisseven says, being taught to weld by a college is a very good idea. That said, having spent 2 years at college where welding was part of the
course, the tuition can be very variable. I lernt more from the couple of lessons when another lecturer was standing in for the normal one.
which college, out of interest. Was it agric college, if so, was it Harper Adams? I did my degree (Agricultural Engineering) there, and the job where
I was fabricating was in the prototype workshop at Vicon ltd when they were in Market Drayton in Shrops.
The college I went to was in evesham and did a engineering ND, it was an agric college, but stoped doing agric year before I got there. most of the
students there are know doing hair dressing/beauty treatment courses. A good view mind
Currently down on harper's books for september start though, doing Off road vehicle design, next one will probably use a landrover donor
As for BTs comment I would say nature and nurture. If you naturally good to start with then it helps, but significant improvement can be made
regardless of natural ability with suitable nurture.
[Edited on 3/5/05 by clbarclay]
Have to say, apart from the final year workload, best years of my life so far were spent at Harper! Built some crazy vehicles and did lots of daft
stuff!
Just beware because unless things have changed, your lecturer for offroad vehicle design will no doubt be Alex Keen, who is, unfortunately, a twat! If
Geoffrey Wakeham is still there, say Nat passes on his regards though, he is a truly brilliant bloke, immeasurable teaching ability in a very off the
wall way!!
Still remember the time we all had a coach trip to a science fair where we entered a competition to build a ground anchor out of paper straws and
string, among other things. The various colleges there were making all manner of complex items and busily burying them to the prescribed depths, Geoff
took a good look at the rules, dug his hole, crumpled all the materials into a big mess, wrapped the string round it, threw it in the hole and buried
it..............and won!!
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clbarclay
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| posted on 4/5/05 at 09:56 AM |
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Team build exercises are good fun, during the first week of A levels, we were split up into groups, given paper + selotape and told to build a bridge
(capable of supporting a load with what we had got.
The team I was on got disqualified when the secret to are bridges strength was discovered. We used what we had got that included the broom (know
without a handle attached) that was in the corner.
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Nisseven
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| posted on 4/5/05 at 10:08 AM |
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Well while I was at work you guys were busy.
Dave. It's not hard, learn to do it properly then your welds will look good as well as be good.
donny. Good stuff.
N S Dev. Please don't encourage them. You obviously have good natural ability and in your job you have obtained the knowledge. As far as being
regulated goes, it is all the crap workmanship that happens that is the main cause of it.
b t. Have faith, welding is not hard and with proper training and a decent machine you will save time and money. Excessive welding and grinding is not
a good thing esp. on such thin material.
Cita. Please don't be a smart arse. I did not say only pro welders should build these cars! All I said was learn to do it properly. Welding is
one thing you will not learn from a book. I am already a trained mechanic but there are still things there that I have to get advise on.
Gazza. You're not in Aussie are you? Huddersfield sounds very English to me. Any way the wisest words spoken so far.
JamJah. See what I mean. You probably did not explain the technique properly, or you have a crap book. I took it that you were placing a series of
blobs one overlapping another ie. stop start stop start.
Wadders. You're right it is not rocket science but you're wrong when you say all that is required is practice. You need to know what to
practice first, then, practice makes perfect.
Bruce
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NS Dev
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| posted on 4/5/05 at 10:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clbarclay
Team build exercises are good fun, during the first week of A levels, we were split up into groups, given paper + selotape and told to build a bridge
(capable of supporting a load with what we had got.
The team I was on got disqualified when the secret to are bridges strength was discovered. We used what we had got that included the broom (know
without a handle attached) that was in the corner.
Totally off-topic, but the Harper Course should be good. Off Road Vehicle Design was a module part of my degree there and I did learn a lot about
traction theory, and even handling of vehicles and the like. For one of my assignments I even tweaked the brief a bit and looked at the theory of
steady state cornering and it's effects on suspension forces and tyre forces. Seem to remember coming across some old stuff from Colin Chapman
on that one!
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gazza285
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| posted on 4/5/05 at 06:11 PM |
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Nisseven, sorry mate.
Huddersfield is in the fine county The West Riding of Yorkshire in the North of Blighty. A career in engineering has led me to being introduced to
what is called the Hollywood welder, good at acting the part but nothing else. Luckily for the Locost builder the welding can all be done downhand,
which allows for a fair bit of, how can I put this, interpretation of technique. Positional welding usually sorts the wheat from the chaff, and the
welding inspector definately does.
I have seen the results of weld failure and it is not pretty.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 4/5/05 at 06:23 PM |
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true, but then again out of position mig and out of position MMA are two very different things. Will put my hands up now and say that out of position
MMA is a ruddy pig! I find that 7 out of 10 times I can do an in situ pipe weld ok, and the other three are useless. If I ever have to cut out a piece
and go back I can just never make a pretty job of it. It may be clean and hold pressure but just looks crap, especially if the cut out was on the
vertical down! Probably shouldn't have said all that given that I am not certified!
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gazza285
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| posted on 4/5/05 at 06:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by I love speed :-P
surely the best way to test your welding, is how it brakes, ie i did a test peice at the begining of my build on 1 inch squ tube (16 swg) and the
metal broke before the weld, so if that happenes you need to worry about the metal not the welding.
Phil
Trouble is the metal might have given way because you have put too much heat into it while welding it.
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Cita
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| posted on 4/5/05 at 08:07 PM |
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Cita. Please don't be a smart arse. I did not say only pro welders should build these cars! All I said was learn to do it properly. Welding is
one thing you will not learn from a book. I am already a trained mechanic but there are still things there that I have to get advise on.
Oooooooh touchy!
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Rorty
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| posted on 5/5/05 at 05:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
I have never been on a welding course but have been asked numerous times whether I am a professional welder.
Why...do you have a red "V" on your chest? 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 5/5/05 at 05:54 AM |
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I'm not a "Welder", but I can buzz cars together OK.
A pipeline welder I know once said "Any idiot can weld and most of them brag about it too".
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 6/5/05 at 12:35 PM |
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ok ok
I was only saying that a few people that have seen my car(s) have asked if I welded for a living, thats all!
I certainly don't brag about it ( I have worked with too many people better than me to do that!!!)
I don't like people telling me that I shouldn't be welding my cars together because I am not qualified though, when I have worked with
people who are qualified and who's work is far worse than mine!
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johnjulie
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| posted on 9/6/05 at 09:45 PM |
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After two years at welding college, 1st year flat, and 2nd vertical, 3rd overhead if I take it, I would honestly recommend that anyone wishing to
build their own chassis from scratch, should not attempt it withought some prior proffesional training. I have found through experience that although
a weld may look perfect visually, it's not until the weld is cut open that the true details of fusion and penetration can be seen. Welds that
look fine on the outside are often lacking both fusion and penetration, crucial to the strength of the joint. It takes a fair bit of practice to get
anywhere near competent.
Practice certainly makes perfect, especially with expert tuition.
Mine is an evening course, ABC levs 1,2 & 3, but many colleges run 6 or 12 week introduction courses, specialising in various types of welding.
I'm doing gas, mig, tig & MMA(stick), and I find each one has its merits. For most jobs, and the most affordable, I would recommend mig.
There are often good books on Ebay, the best all rounder is:
The Science & Practice of Welding. VOL 2
by A.C. Davies. Covers all types of weding. Excellent, but expensive.
Cheers John
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Peteff
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| posted on 9/6/05 at 11:13 PM |
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I used to arc weld vessels in a foundry and do repairs on castings but never did formal courses. I took a job fork truck driving at a place and one of
the trucks was in for a guard repair as it had been hit with something. The fitter was making heavy weather of it, sticking the rod and swearing a lot
so I asked if he wanted a hand. He asked if I could weld and I said, " Can't everybody?" Turned the power up and put a run round it.
He was impressed and I was surprised he'd had a welder lying round and never bothered experimenting with it.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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