Here is my very first MIG weld
Although it looks like hell it sure was fun.
How the heck do you see what you are doing while you are welding? As you can see I can't even run a decent straight line yet!
Now I guess it is time to read various welding directions that I have downloaded and buy someone who knows how to weld a case of brew.
Rescued attachment welding_1.JPG
A decent mask with the right filters makes the job easier...especially if it's an auto-darkening jobbie
quote:
Originally posted by drmike54
Here is my very first MIG weld
How the heck do you see what you are doing while you are welding? As you can see I can't even run a decent straight line yet!
Now I guess it is time to read various welding directions that I have downloaded and buy someone who knows how to weld a case of brew.
my first MIG weld was a total disaster!
My lens was not an auto-dark and I suppose I didn't hear the instructions about putting the wire against the metal THEN pull the trigger.
I would pull the trigger but nothing would happen. I'm in the dark, of course, and eventually the wire would come out far enough to contact the
metal. big flash!
was a series of spark, curse, spark, curse. eventually gave up.
I'm working with TIG now. seems so much easier.
AND, I have an autodarkening mask.
Someday, perhaps, I'll try MIG again.
dave
[Edited on 3/5/05 by dmottaway]
Got the AutoDarkenig mask that is one amazing piece of hardware. Going to read some stuff i downloaded on MIG tonight maybe I can try some more Wednesday. Is MDF heat resistant? The skid that I was working on kept catching on fire. I can see why a welding table is just a big piece of steel.
looks to me like you are holding the torch with one hand?
Always use two hands on the torch, one holding it and pulling the trigger and the other one steadying the shroud end.
If you've got a new mask, and don't want to buy an auto-darkening mask just yet (they are excellent though!), go to a welding shop and get a
couple of filters a shade or two lighter. I think the mask makers tend to be over-cautious and provide one that's too dark, just in case.
Another help is to chalk a line on each side of the intended weld, about 1cm away. This helps to give a reference.
Finally, shine a very bright light on the work - I use a 500W worklight - which helps to reduce the contrast between the bright arc and the dark
metal.
It's worth reading even a basic book on welding - there's stuff like the correct way of tacking up work to reduce distortion, the correct
angles for holding the torch for different jobs, etc. Even better, if you know a friendly welder ask him to give you an hour or two of his time - you
won't believe how much difference this will make. I did a couple of 1-day Saturday courses at my local agricultural college, which was a big
help.
Finally, keep practicing on scrap until it looks pretty, then start working towards making STRONG and pretty welds - beat the work with a hammer until
it's bent double, hacksaw across welds to see how good they are, and all that sort of stuff. Be very self-critical.
Oh - one final thing - it is very rewarding when you finally lay down a perfect weld!
David
Get your head close to where the weld torch is on the metal. And watch the molten metal pool form, you should be able to see it easily when you are
close enough. Its no good being half a metre or more away. (Just make sure you are wearing something that will stop sparks going down your neck!).
Support the torch with one hand, and pull the trigger with the other. (Make sure you are wearing food leather gloves) Dont try and weld more than
100mm at a time until you get good. Keep a steady speed and the torch a constant distance from the work.
That about it apart what whats already been said. You say you have an auto helmet, so you shouldnt have trouble seeing where to start the weld.
David 
[Edited on 3/5/05 by flak monkey]
I just bought myself a simple mask from machine mart. It is not auto darkening but did come with a 9ew kens which a little easier to see through and
it only cost me £15
Up until now i have been trying to use the hand held jobby that came with my welder - absolutely hopeless! first time out with the new mask and an
acceptable (i won't say brilliant!) weld. It is so much easier with both hands free and if you get the mask balanced right you can lift it up,
postion the torch with both hands and then a quick nod brings the mask down before you start to weld.
Not as good as an auto darkening mask but a damn sight cheaper!
I got my autodarkning from ebay. £30 flown from the states. Took bout a week. Not sure if they still are on ebay, but conform to the right bits.
Battery and Solar powered. Id say got battery and keep a spare, unless its used most days.
Edit because it was discredited.
[Edited on 3/5/05 by JamJah]
I can,t believe that most of you guys are prepared to buy a welder a helmet and proceed to weld the chassis of a vehicle that, not only is going to
impact on your own lives, but also upon some other poor unfotunate soul, should it fail.
I am a profesional welder and while mig welding looks very easy I implore you to go to professionally run courses at polytechs or what have you. If we
have them in NZ then you must have them in your own countries. Ours are often subsidised by the Gov't and honestly you will not realise how much
you don't know until you learn it properly. An auto helmet will not make you a better welder unless you learn how to use it.
Any wonder the authorities around the world are insisting on certain standards when people insist upon self learning such an important skill.
Bruce
I've just reread jamjar's post and what a lot of rubbish.
Telling people to weld as you say is irresponsible and could result in serious cold lap and no penetration if I understand correctly your method. Even
if I have it wrong, this method is incorrect.
Again learn properly from someone who does know what he is doing.
Bruce
Maybe i should clarify a little - I would not personally weld anything 'critical' ie the main chassis or the wishbones because I don't
trust my own welding and have therefore bought those items. However i feel happy about the numerous other little jobs that crop up that aren't
quite so critical like attaching minor brackets etc. I agree that if you are going to go the full locost route and build from scratch then it is
worthwhile getting some advice and training. That said I was shown how by my brother who is a registered welder and his welding is crap ! 
As nisseven says, being taught to weld by a college is a very good idea. That said, having spent 2 years at college where welding was part of the course, the tuition can be very variable. I lernt more from the couple of lessons when another lecturer was standing in for the normal one.
Hi lads,
I have been wanting to build a car for over a year now...just haven't got a donor or garage - they are in the plan. However the first thing I
did was enroll in Telford College on a Basic Mig Welding Course. £68 for 12 weeks. I've just got my SVQ. Chuffed! I agree with the
professional welders, get trained. You need to know that your welds will be solid!
On the other hand......................I have never been on a welding course but have been asked numerous times whether I am a professional welder.
I have bought a couple of very informative books, and worked as a fabricator for a while having welded some test pieces for "boss's
approval" (prototype workshop, not production stuff)
JamJah's post is indeed total rubbish and totally unsafe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However, I believe in the idea of self sufficiency and not living in a "nanny state". If one is confident in one's abilities, then
ahead, if not then don't.
SVA is there to check for dangerous items, leave the rest to the person building the car.
Our lives are already regulated enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Coming up to an election, for goodness' sake we are already "governed" enough under Tony "nanny-state" Blair.
quote:
Originally posted by clbarclay
As nisseven says, being taught to weld by a college is a very good idea. That said, having spent 2 years at college where welding was part of the course, the tuition can be very variable. I lernt more from the couple of lessons when another lecturer was standing in for the normal one.
Good welders like good painters are born not made, giving a natural welder good training only reduces the time it takes for them to develop inborn
talent and gives them enough knowledge of the properies of metals not to make potentially lethal mistakes.
I am not a natural welder and never shall be but I can on occasion do a decent weld --- on the many occaisions I do a weld i am not happy with I cut
and grind it all out.
I have just done 4 almost perfect welds and 4 horrible ones which apart from my obvious lack of skill were caused by the toy town wire feed motor in
my Sip welder playing up --- an hour wasted tinkering with the welder and I ran off another couple of decent welds.
This forum would not have been created if only pro welders took on the job of building their own car.
Nisseven is probably right but will he hire a pro mechanic to do his breaks-hire an engineer for the suspension steering etc..
not to speak about the electric stuff or is this OK when done by the amateur when your chassis is welded by a proffessional welder?
It has to be said that some of the welding I have seen on this site does make me cringe (along with some of the advice as well), but things like brake
fitting and bleeding is acomplished by following simple instructions which should be well known by anybody who has been paying attention. Welding can
not be done by following the same criterior as it is a process that needs to be learned and understood. The materials used are generally of thin wall
construction and need to be welded correctly as structural failure can and often is disasterous. If you are not in any way sure please seek more
professional advice.
And remember just because it looks pretty does not mean it is a good weld.
[Edited on 3/5/05 by gazza285]
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
quote:
Originally posted by clbarclay
As nisseven says, being taught to weld by a college is a very good idea. That said, having spent 2 years at college where welding was part of the course, the tuition can be very variable. I lernt more from the couple of lessons when another lecturer was standing in for the normal one.
which college, out of interest. Was it agric college, if so, was it Harper Adams? I did my degree (Agricultural Engineering) there, and the job where I was fabricating was in the prototype workshop at Vicon ltd when they were in Market Drayton in Shrops.
I've never been taught to mig weld but I was taught arc welding, gas welding and propane cutting and arcair cutting. I did a bit of tig welding
many years ago as well and used a thermic lance to clean out a furnace once, they are evil tools. I think that anyone can learn to do anything given
training and tools. I still wish I'd gone to work in a bank sometimes though
Last night I read several of the articles that I have downloaded about MIG welding. I like the idea about the 500W light. I realized this morning that
I need to raise the table up some because my back was hurting from being bent over to far.
I guess the real problem was I JUST COULD NOT WAIT TO MELT SOME STEEL.
quote:
Originally posted by clbarclay
The college I went to was in evesham and did a engineering ND, it was an agric college, but stoped doing agric year before I got there. most of the students there are know doing hair dressing/beauty treatment courses. A good view mind
Currently down on harper's books for september start though, doing Off road vehicle design, next one will probably use a landrover donor
Pershore college is the one between pershore and evesham, only done counter balance lift truck licence there, so can't comment. Evesham college
is across the road from H&M motor factors.
The welding I did there was just part of another course, so teaching was not too good, I was mainly left to it. The groups I saw in there doing purely
welding looked to be getting far better tuition.
One of the best bits at evesham though is the vast stocks of scrap metal you can weld together. I liberated a good peice or two, comes in hand when
you need a suitable peice of metal to make a spacer or wishbones from.
Heard I was slated for my post. Was paraphrasing the edexcel textbook for the BTEC in Welding. Did the course but didnt fancy £300 for the paper.
are you having a laugh here or what? It's not rocket science, for most people, practice is all thats required to become a proficient
welder. Just remember, if it looks sh#t it probably is.
Al
Good welders like good painters are born not made, giving a natural welder good training only reduces the time it takes for them to develop inborn
talent and gives them enough knowledge of the properies of metals not to make potentially lethal mistakes.
quote:
Originally posted by JamJah
Heard I was slated for my post. Was paraphrasing the edexcel textbook for the BTEC in Welding. Did the course but didnt fancy £300 for the paper.
surely the best way to test your welding, is how it brakes, ie i did a test peice at the begining of my build on 1 inch squ tube (16 swg) and the
metal broke before the weld, so if that happenes you need to worry about the metal not the welding.
Phil
When it comes down to it, welding is a skill/art that needs practice, practice, practice.
Training is a major help, and constructive (destructive!) criticism is almost essential. When you're on your own you have to be your own critic,
and practice that much more!
David
quote:
Originally posted by clbarclay
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
quote:
Originally posted by clbarclay
As nisseven says, being taught to weld by a college is a very good idea. That said, having spent 2 years at college where welding was part of the course, the tuition can be very variable. I lernt more from the couple of lessons when another lecturer was standing in for the normal one.
which college, out of interest. Was it agric college, if so, was it Harper Adams? I did my degree (Agricultural Engineering) there, and the job where I was fabricating was in the prototype workshop at Vicon ltd when they were in Market Drayton in Shrops.
The college I went to was in evesham and did a engineering ND, it was an agric college, but stoped doing agric year before I got there. most of the students there are know doing hair dressing/beauty treatment courses. A good view mind
Currently down on harper's books for september start though, doing Off road vehicle design, next one will probably use a landrover donor
As for BTs comment I would say nature and nurture. If you naturally good to start with then it helps, but significant improvement can be made regardless of natural ability with suitable nurture.
[Edited on 3/5/05 by clbarclay]
Team build exercises are good fun, during the first week of A levels, we were split up into groups, given paper + selotape and told to build a bridge
(capable of supporting a load with what we had got.
The team I was on got disqualified when the secret to are bridges strength was discovered. We used what we had got that included the broom (know
without a handle attached) that was in the corner.
Well while I was at work you guys were busy.
Dave. It's not hard, learn to do it properly then your welds will look good as well as be good.
donny. Good stuff.
N S Dev. Please don't encourage them. You obviously have good natural ability and in your job you have obtained the knowledge. As far as being
regulated goes, it is all the crap workmanship that happens that is the main cause of it.
b t. Have faith, welding is not hard and with proper training and a decent machine you will save time and money. Excessive welding and grinding is not
a good thing esp. on such thin material.
Cita. Please don't be a smart arse. I did not say only pro welders should build these cars! All I said was learn to do it properly. Welding is
one thing you will not learn from a book. I am already a trained mechanic but there are still things there that I have to get advise on.
Gazza. You're not in Aussie are you? Huddersfield sounds very English to me. Any way the wisest words spoken so far.
JamJah. See what I mean. You probably did not explain the technique properly, or you have a crap book. I took it that you were placing a series of
blobs one overlapping another ie. stop start stop start.
Wadders. You're right it is not rocket science but you're wrong when you say all that is required is practice. You need to know what to
practice first, then, practice makes perfect.
Bruce
quote:
Originally posted by clbarclay
Team build exercises are good fun, during the first week of A levels, we were split up into groups, given paper + selotape and told to build a bridge (capable of supporting a load with what we had got.
The team I was on got disqualified when the secret to are bridges strength was discovered. We used what we had got that included the broom (know without a handle attached) that was in the corner.
Nisseven, sorry mate.
Huddersfield is in the fine county The West Riding of Yorkshire in the North of Blighty. A career in engineering has led me to being introduced to
what is called the Hollywood welder, good at acting the part but nothing else. Luckily for the Locost builder the welding can all be done downhand,
which allows for a fair bit of, how can I put this, interpretation of technique. Positional welding usually sorts the wheat from the chaff, and the
welding inspector definately does.
I have seen the results of weld failure and it is not pretty.
true, but then again out of position mig and out of position MMA are two very different things. Will put my hands up now and say that out of position MMA is a ruddy pig! I find that 7 out of 10 times I can do an in situ pipe weld ok, and the other three are useless. If I ever have to cut out a piece and go back I can just never make a pretty job of it. It may be clean and hold pressure but just looks crap, especially if the cut out was on the vertical down! Probably shouldn't have said all that given that I am not certified!
quote:
Originally posted by I love speed :-P
surely the best way to test your welding, is how it brakes, ie i did a test peice at the begining of my build on 1 inch squ tube (16 swg) and the metal broke before the weld, so if that happenes you need to worry about the metal not the welding.
Phil
Cita. Please don't be a smart arse. I did not say only pro welders should build these cars! All I said was learn to do it properly. Welding is
one thing you will not learn from a book. I am already a trained mechanic but there are still things there that I have to get advise on.
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
I have never been on a welding course but have been asked numerous times whether I am a professional welder.
I'm not a "Welder", but I can buzz cars together OK.
A pipeline welder I know once said "Any idiot can weld and most of them brag about it too".
ok ok
I was only saying that a few people that have seen my car(s) have asked if I welded for a living, thats all!
I certainly don't brag about it ( I have worked with too many people better than me to do that!!!)
I don't like people telling me that I shouldn't be welding my cars together because I am not qualified though, when I have worked with
people who are qualified and who's work is far worse than mine!
After two years at welding college, 1st year flat, and 2nd vertical, 3rd overhead if I take it, I would honestly recommend that anyone wishing to
build their own chassis from scratch, should not attempt it withought some prior proffesional training. I have found through experience that although
a weld may look perfect visually, it's not until the weld is cut open that the true details of fusion and penetration can be seen. Welds that
look fine on the outside are often lacking both fusion and penetration, crucial to the strength of the joint. It takes a fair bit of practice to get
anywhere near competent.
Practice certainly makes perfect, especially with expert tuition.
Mine is an evening course, ABC levs 1,2 & 3, but many colleges run 6 or 12 week introduction courses, specialising in various types of welding.
I'm doing gas, mig, tig & MMA(stick), and I find each one has its merits. For most jobs, and the most affordable, I would recommend mig.
There are often good books on Ebay, the best all rounder is:
The Science & Practice of Welding. VOL 2
by A.C. Davies. Covers all types of weding. Excellent, but expensive.
Cheers John
I used to arc weld vessels in a foundry and do repairs on castings but never did formal courses. I took a job fork truck driving at a place and one of the trucks was in for a guard repair as it had been hit with something. The fitter was making heavy weather of it, sticking the rod and swearing a lot so I asked if he wanted a hand. He asked if I could weld and I said, " Can't everybody?" Turned the power up and put a run round it. He was impressed and I was surprised he'd had a welder lying round and never bothered experimenting with it.