I've finally made it big time in the industry, yesterday i got threatening emails from solicitors acting on behalf of Caterham!
I'm so pleased, it means i've finally made enough of an impression to stir Caterham into action.
As a reaction to this i've decided to work on a collection of upgrade parts for Caterham models, just to really wee them off!
Kind regards,
Darren
What you mean you hav'nt got enough work on as it is
Whatever were they hassling you for? Not like every 7 out there doesnt bear more than a passing resemblance to the Cateringvan or Westf%^&d.
[Edited on 24/3/05 by flak monkey]
New name for you Darren....."F1-NEVES" unless Cat's legal wallers object to it 
Darren i'd be really careful if i was you.
The Caterham legal eagles are very very persistant. I know of a bloke in Northern Ireland who did a lot of unofficial sales work for them. Tried to
register his garage as "the 7 workshop" (or something similar) specialising in all types of seven. Caterham don't have a franchise or
anything over there and they still went after him.
It was settled amicably in the end. I believe they also went after the se7ens email list. Not sure if that has been settled.
Good luck with what ever happens.
Good luck Darren. Cateringvan obviously cant handle a bit of competition
What exacually are they worried about? copyright infringement? As I understood it they can make the silhoulete theirs, they can make the name their,
they can make the parts they produce theirs, but you cant make a concept yours.
What did they say? GO on name and shame! Wreck their reputation using their own words!
Its how the japenese car industry been operating for years!
Know someone who has a premises near theirs, want a showroom? LOL
Wish you luck Darren, you have a good product.
It's the use of the number 7 that upsets them.
the name "seven" could probably be called a trade mark or something similar. They may well win any action about the use of this name.
Notice that westfield et. al. don't use it. Probably for good reason.
7
You cant trademark a number...surely?
[Edited on 24/3/05 by flak monkey]
They have a knack of putting potential customers backs up.
Remember the Tiger Super '6'
Well Done
From the legal bit at the bottom of the Caterham web site :
quote:
SEVEN and 7 are registered trade marks of Caterham Car Sales & Coachworks Limited
This might of annoyed them
quote:
If you are thinking of buying a Caterham CSR think again!
quote:
The car will be the lightest, have the lowest centre of gravity, and lowest polar moment of inertia of any 7, and will feature aerodynamic modifications that will also give it the lowest drag figures.
Probably about the 7 in W7DE? If they have (tm) on 7 it could be a reason?
[Edited on 24/3/05 by flak monkey]
Probably that as well
Sorry, but i think thats a step too far! I can understand trade marking se7en or something, but '7'!!
Adam
quote:
"SEVEN and 7 are registered trade marks of Caterham Car Sales & Coachworks Limited"
Kinda makes you laugh really
I can see why you got out Mark !! Glad your back though all the same 
Jason
That lot have new masters so I think they may have a shot at all around them. The got there @***** kicked when they took Birkin to court in South
Africa. Now to those in the know a Birkin is more original than the present day catervan. This was the one that allowed the birkin into the UK.
Darren dont go head to head with these monsters, as they have a team that tracks some 27 or so clones/replica manufactures. Probally a budget to
match.
What suprised me is they never chased HAYNES for publishing the locost book!
or ol ron champion .
Dont go there not big not clever and very expensive.
I dont think they ever actually called it a 7.
Adam
Time for a sensible comment I think....
Thinking about it it doesnt suprise me that they are trying to keep tabs on all the other manufacturers who are building seven replicas (are there
really 27? Jeez!) and protecting their intellectual property. However, by threatening people with legal action for using the word 'seven' or
'7' in the description of a sevenesque car seems a bit extreme, as it describes the cars (since they are all based on the Lotus 7 to a
greater or lesser extent). Would they complain at sevenesque? AFAIK they cant even complain if you are making parts to fit their cars, as long as they
arent copies of their parts (ie they are your own design).
If it was something about the comments about the new GTS car (as mentioned) thats only advertising, and anyone is entitled to do that within
reason.
David
[Edited on 24/3/05 by flak monkey]
I don't think they could go after Haynes.....
Caterham won a legal fight with westfield. Westfield changed there design to suit the court ruling. The Haynes book was 'similar' to the
westfield. I believe westfield and Haynes had a few conversations but i don't recall it ending up in court.
Folks, i think we all need to be careful what we say here. Darren has been threatened with legal action. Its quite possible this web site and the
poster could also be threatened if we post views that are libelous.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Folks, i think we all need to be careful what we say here. Darren has been threatened with legal action. Its quite possible this web site and the poster could also be threatened if we post views that are libelous.
I wasn't suggesting anyone had, just that we should be careful and respect other peoples rights - irrespective of if we agree with them or not.
I'd hate to lose this forum because of one or two people accidentally say or imply something that is seen as illegal in a court of law.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
I wasn't suggesting anyone had, just that we should be careful and respect other peoples rights - irrespective of if we agree with them or not.
I'd hate to lose this forum because of one or two people accidentally say or imply something that is seen as illegal in a court of law.
cateringvan..... does that mean the CSR is their new Chip-Shop-Racer.....
Remember when Intel used to name their processors '386' '486' etc, and then changed them to 'names'? I heard this was
because you couldn't copyright a number, but not certain...
[Edited on 25/3/05 by Northy]
American laws are different to Europen laws. I believe Caterham have settled a long running difference of opinion with BMW. They now agree to share the trademark on the seven (not sure if its the number or word).
Wow, i leave you lot for a few hours and suddenly its the longest running thread of the week.
To be fair they have asked me not to use the word seven or 7 when relating to a 2 seater clubmans style car. What amuses me is that they don't
have the balls to call me and ask, they just decide to let lawyers do it for them.
Also how do F27 get away with it? And whats the description of a clubmans 2 seater sports car? Isn't AK427 a problem for them, how do you
describe a clubmans style car.
With regard to Westfield, the court action favoured Westfield in the end and it was them who made the big noise about it, because it basically
promoted their products, and made the industry take note that Caterham felt threatened by Westfield and their products.
If they decide to persue me, then good luck to them, i'll gain more than them in the long run. They can't have what i haven't got and
it'll only serve to promote my products.
Funnily enough they haven't complianed yet about the W7DE, but only about the F1-7 (the CSR competitor).
Kind regards,
Darren
Darren, how about F1 (6+1) 
Jason
Darren, it is possible that Caterham don't know about the action. It wouldn't surprise me if the legal team had a brief to go after anyone
who infringed the trademark and that is what they are doing.
As i think i implied before, be very careful if you go up against them. I'd put money on you loosing and us all loosing your input into this
community as the legal action bankrupts you.
According to that trademark search they dont hold any copyright/trademark on the '7', only on 'Seven'. (Though the badge will be a
trademark) That doesnt make it wrong to use the number 7 when describing a 7 car....surely! 
As said...their lawyers will be highly paid, unless you know what you are doing, or have a lawyer friend, i wouldnt suggest battling with them. Maybe
just come to some arrangement...
[Edited on 25/3/05 by flak monkey]
Sometime ago I developed some software. I discussed copyright with my lawyer. He explained that if I simply put copyright and trademark notices on all software and documentation then that was sufficient without registering the trademark. If this is correct then Caterham may indeed have claim to the "7" digit when applied to this type of car.
Someone preempted them by registering the name '586', that's why it was changed to the pentium rather than buy it back for an exhorbitant sum.
what about the "austin 7",that predated lotus by quite some time and later was used on a mini (without pas)
Just like the 7 series BMW - its a completely different car and a person who's interested in the '7' type car would not mistake the
austin 7 or a BMW 7 series for that car - hence not an issue.
(i believe - this is all based on memories of conversations on the se7ens list)
I wonder if part of the appeal of the original Lotus 7 for you Britishers was because of the Austin Seven and some of the specials built from it.
[img]http://www.vieux-volants.com/Galerie%20photos/Swiss%20Classic%20British%20Car%[/img]
Oops, dodgy picture link:
Rescued attachment DSCN1941_small1.jpg
what a pretty austin 3point 5 times two
Start using..."21" instead.....that will wind them up......
3 times better?
No the 21 was a flop and somebody in Surrey made it.......not naming names etc.
Nowt new about the early Lotus anyway .....they copied the Buckler which came before the Lotus 6 n 7
Not heard of it? Out of interest...got any weblinks to any info about it?
It looks sort of like a Maxda MX5 only the Mazda sold well to those that messed with hair.....
Try looking for Caterham 21.
I believe the view was that the 21 didn't sell because .... its target market was taken by a little car called the Elise that was released just after the 21 and had wind up windows.
Looks strangely like a Porsche 911/924 from the front. And an old bmw Z3 from the rear....
[Edited on 25/3/05 by flak monkey]
The Austin 7 wins my vote
quote:
Originally posted by pbura
I wonder if part of the appeal of the original Lotus 7 for you Britishers was because of the Austin Seven and some of the specials built from it.
[img]http://www.vieux-volants.com/Galerie%20photos/Swiss%20Classic%20British%20Car%[/img]
What about using roman numerals then?
The GTS VII??
VII sounds too much like a German missile from the last do, The buggers bombed our chippy
Or turn the VII into V2.............giving you
The GTS V2
Not to be thought of as quarter of a V8 though
Interestingly Caterham always forget that they weren't the only company Chapman sold the Lotus Seven rights to there was at least one other company (in NZ) making official Sevens.
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Interestingly Caterham always forget that they weren't the only company Chapman sold the Lotus Seven rights to there was at least one other company (in NZ) making official Sevens.
Just found this thread again. On the trademarks I only found they had SEVAN and not in lowercase. Does case matter?
Darren, are you at liberty to say if youve heard any more? If you cant or would prefer not to I understand the situation.
Our car is a Bradford7, should I be in fear of the letterbox now?
I think you can copyright a number as the porsche 911 was going to be the 901 but this wasnt allowed as Pugs use the zero in the middle of there cars to designate that it is a pug.
I'm at liberty to say what i like, because i shan't let them tell me what i can and cannot say about the situation.
As i understand it and according to the trademark information they sent me they own the rights to the word "seven" and the number
"7" when used for a 2 seaters sports car of the clubman style.
There are probably loads of ways tog et round it, Forumla 27 for instance get away with it. How do you describe a clubmans style car, what if it had a
childs seat in it etc..
At the end of the day they have more money than me, so it wouldn't even get to court, cos i would lose before it got there, but, i can make it to
my advantage by gain publicity and credibility from it because Caterham obviously feel threatened by it.
Its funny that they are disturbed by the use of 7 in the car that i plan to use to rival the CSR, yet the wide version of the Locost "W7DE"
they made no comment about at all.
Kind regards,
Darren
why doesn't somebody like yourself, with products like you have (Bloody Good) start a whole new 'type' name ? I'm sure the whole
industry would love to have another general type name for these cars and it would stick two fingers up to the owners of the old '7' and
'seven' names
Jason
Jason,
Not sure what you're suggesting would ever work/take off. Bit like building a cobra replica and calling it a python/snake/adder, bit silly imho
and everyone knows what it's aspiring to be!
Ned.
Are you allowed to refer to products in tag lines.
ie. GTS 8 - One up from a 7.
Or how baout calling it GTS Severn. Of course after its great power and reliablity(of tides). Publicity shots could be on the Clifton Suspension
Bridge.
Naff I know. But I'm trying.
Yeah true, but a web browser isn't just called I.E it's a web browser, one make is just 'Explorer', there are others !
Ford don't own the name 'coupe' they have models that have a 'coupe' version,
we all know that aeroplanes are made by different companies, they all use a number to determine the size, class and type but they all make aeroplanes
Cars have wheels and seats, the 7 was Mr chapmans design of car, why can't the rest of the kit car market get together to name the class of car
differently, only Caterham and their drivers would try to complain as the rest of the market would be known a something else and they would get
forgoten over time !!!!!
Do you really think that westfield/dax/robinhood/luego,mk.. the list goes on.. would complain at having a new name type to get around the
problem???
Jason
Not ranting, just trying to explain my thoughts
[Edited on 13/4/05 by Deckman001]
ned, what i was trying to say in my zzz way was I can only find use of the word. couldnt find entry for number. but surely if they only have the word in caps then ypu can doi something like se7an but not as this is already identifiable. how close is close?