Mark Allanson
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 posted on 17/11/02 at 10:12 PM |
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Trailing arms, adjustable or not?
I am now at the point of making the rear trailing arms, the book ones are non adjustable, I have seen ones on cars the are adjustable - is there any
real advantage?
I am pretty confident that the chassis is dead square, should I bother with the extra effort and expence?
Mark
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locodude
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| posted on 17/11/02 at 10:40 PM |
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No! Get it on the road and get driving, you can modify it later if needs be.
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Viper
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 12:05 AM |
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I would make them adjustable, that way any slight discrepency in the chassis can be dialed out..
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Jasper
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 12:44 PM |
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Making them adjustable was v. easy, 10mm rose joint at the axle end. I used a female and welded a bolt into the tube. Simple and adjustable as my
measuring was never that good! Also used one at the axle end of the panhard rod. Let me know if you want details.
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Hornet
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 01:19 PM |
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Been discussed b4.. but, i have just fitted 12mm rose joints and THEY look kinda flimsy! 10mm... i am not a pro, but they must look really iffy? 
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locodude
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 06:21 PM |
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Dear People
I refer you to my previous posting. Get it on the road, if you make it too complicated it will take forever. Use Chris G as an example, 6 years and
counting. Ask him what he would do if he was starting again. 'Keep it simple stupid' is the quote I believe!
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chrisg
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 06:38 PM |
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I'm tempted to tell the Plastic tank man to get stuffed*but*If I was starting again mine would be the simplest car possible, that is true - It's the
twidly bits that take the time.
Anyway mines finished, there's no front brakes on yours!!
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 06:40 PM |
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i can go with the keep is simple.
However, as soon as my car is finished i just know it will all be worth it and i wouldnt have done it any other way!
Personally, if i was real;ly sure I had everything square, I would have used bushes. on my car I used rose joints everywhere. Just to give that bit of
adjustment if needed. However, its costly - over 15 quid a joint if you get a BIG decent 16mm one. Perhaps 12mm is ok for the rear.
Bushes are cheaper and easier.
atb
steve
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locodude
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 06:42 PM |
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Oh yes there are, although there's 4 pots and vents on one side and 2 pots and solid on the other!
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Macca
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 posted on 18/11/02 at 08:02 PM |
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Oh yes there are, although there's 4 pots and vents on one side and 2 pots and solid on the other!
Chris,
isn't that a little dangerous. Must pull a bit!
Col
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Jasper
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 08:23 PM |
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10mm rose joints have kept the back of Jon's car together - and some of you have seen how he drives!!
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locodude
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 10:13 PM |
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Macca, don't be silly, i just have'nt got round to doing the other side yet!
And Mr Jasper re:rose joints and Jon Ison, now who was it who ripped his joints out of the arms a few weeks back? You can ask him the details!
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Rorty
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 10:28 PM |
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10mm Rose joints? What's your second car, an ambulance?
Unless you're using the heavy duty shank (12mm) chrome moly joints from Aurora or National, forget it.
If you don't believe me, ask our friend Cymtricks to run a FEA on the over-the-counter-mild-steel 10mm joints in this application.
On the other hand though, they won't be any worse than welded-on bushes, judging by the standard of some of the welding I've seen on this list! 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Viper
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| posted on 18/11/02 at 10:37 PM |
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If it helps.....i run a Tvr Tuscan chalenge car and on that we use 1/2" rose joints everywhere but with 8mm bolts this car weighs in at 850kg and has
460hp on 11" wide slicks the joints usualy last a couple of seasons but aint cheap.....about 3 grand for the whole car (22 joints)
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 19/11/02 at 07:57 AM |
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Fifteen quid each, thats £60, that would only leave me £190!!!!!!
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Ian Pearson
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| posted on 19/11/02 at 09:46 AM |
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I used the trailing arms off a Nissan Bluebird. They are the right size, can be adjusted and only require a bit of elbow grease to remove from the
car. Also used one to make an adjustable panhard rod. Easier than fabricating and cheaper too. What could be simpler?
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Jasper
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| posted on 19/11/02 at 03:48 PM |
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Oh poo really? - Maybe I'll be checking me welding....He didn't break the joints though?????
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 19/11/02 at 07:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
10mm rose joints have kept the back of Jon's car together - and some of you have seen how he drives!!
I wonder how long they last in terms of wear tho.....
there are rod ends and rod ends - some have very low ratings for the same size category.
atb
steve
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Jasper
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| posted on 19/11/02 at 07:42 PM |
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According to Jon they were high grade expensive ones ........ time will tell!!
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 19/11/02 at 07:45 PM |
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wich will go 1st ????
a 10mm joint rated at 6000psi or
a 16mm joint rated at 4000psi ???
nuff said, its not the size that counts.....
and chris, you saw the failed trailing arms 1st hand, seem the rememember the joints where still intact and the weld/pipe and failed......4000 miles
on them no visible or detectable wear in them as yet,,
on these theroys an F1 car should be using 40mm joints ?????
bit like saying a 900cc bike engine can't out accelerate a 2000cc lump of old iron.....
any way enough of all that, it's the rating not the size that counts.....,
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Viper
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| posted on 19/11/02 at 10:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
Fifteen quid each, thats £60, that would only leave me £190!!!!!!
they are cheap cheap rose joints, if you cant afford decent rod ends then why not make adjustable ends with poly bushes that would give a better ride,
on the road anyway, rod ends are fine on a race car but bloody harsh on the street...
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Rorty
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| posted on 20/11/02 at 02:19 AM |
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Sorry to be a scare monger, but when it comes to building something capable of traveling at speed in public places, then I worry about under-rated
rodends and shonky welding.
Ian Pearson points out the Nissan Bluebird trailing arms fit. They'll be over engineered (from a heavier car/manufacturers safety margin), so won't
fall apart in a hurry.
As Viper states, rodends will give a harsh ride, but if you're determined to use them to compensate for chassis misalingment, then ask your bearing
supplier for some catalogues, and do a bit of research as to which rodends are suitable.
There are dozens of different types, and I suspect the cheap ones mentioned before, are only suitable for linkages in industrial applications. The
good quality automotive grade ones aren't likely to be kept lying around, as they are neither cheap, nor in widespread demand.
Look on the web for rodends made by the likes of Aurora, FK, Alinabal, Tuthill, National etc.
As most of you are UK based look up www.resb.co.uk they carry a good selection.
If price/availability is a problem, there's a comparrison chart on my site www.rortydesign/rodend_interchange.jpg
Some custom/hot rod suppliers have beautiful investment cast T-ends, which accept polyurethane bushes and crush tubes (see pic). They would give you
the adjustability, and some degree of ride comfort.
 
Rescued attachment T_ends.jpg
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 20/11/02 at 02:25 AM |
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This is the standard of welding that scares me, and shouldn't be used to repair a gate, let alone for fabricating suspension components.
Looks scarey? It was sourced from this list! 
 
Rescued attachment deathtrap.jpg
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Macca
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| posted on 20/11/02 at 01:27 PM |
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Bob,
Nice photo, but where did you get it from as I'm unable to access the photo section.
Am I doing something wrong?
Cheers Col
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johnston
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| posted on 20/11/02 at 06:23 PM |
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the bosses morgan aero 8 as i said in another post has like a half and half thing they look like rod ends but are actually bushes
dot no where to get em or cost but if used will give u the adjustment the same as rod ends plus can be easily swapped u ever wish to do so but wont
give the harsh ride that rod ends do
therfore everyones a winner
if u can find em
[Edited on 20/11/02 by johnston]
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