IDONTBELEIVEIT
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 09:21 PM |
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heres one we made earlier (pics)
heres some of the first pics of 1 of 5 cars that one of my clients is building,were making various components to there designs including upper and
lower wishbones,fully welded and mirror polished swingarms,suspension bracketry,rear hub carriers,we've also done the powdercoating in house,
were of to the autosport show friday 9th (NEC)where the first one will look completed with all bodywork and running gear. 2.0 duratec rear engined and
twin chain driven,the company has had there own buck made for bodywork and the managing director has designed the whole car from scratch with our
input along the way
i have some early concept photos somewhere i'll fish them out if anyones interested
some of these cars will be for sale if the figures work out o.k,next year when we may go into production
[Edited on 6/1/09 by IDONTBELEIVEIT].jpg)
Are We There Yet, Are We There Yet!!!!
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IDONTBELEIVEIT
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 09:22 PM |
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pic 2.jpg)
Are We There Yet, Are We There Yet!!!!
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IDONTBELEIVEIT
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 09:23 PM |
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pic 3.jpg)
Are We There Yet, Are We There Yet!!!!
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Alan B
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 09:30 PM |
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Funny..I thought of using that method of power transfer for an off-roader I was designing...stops you having to rely on high angle CVs with long
travel. What about the varying chain length? (it will change wont' it) My version had the same centre distance and was parallel so no length
change.
Looks good..I'm interested to hear the thinking behind a lot of it.
Alan
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coozer
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 09:57 PM |
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If its Duratec (FORD?) power then why chain drives? Thinking about converting the gearbox means making drive sprockets where drive shafts would be??
Whats the point?
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Mansfield
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 10:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
What about the varying chain length? (it will change wont' it)
Alan
Can the chain length vary with this set up? Wouldn't that require the 'swing arm to change in length as well? If it doesn't
change, the suspension won't work. Or am I being thick?
EDIT - And are there some rather large moments due to the hub extension to clear the tyre or are the disks inboard or something like that?
[Edited on 6/1/09 by Mansfield]
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Antnicuk
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 10:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
If its Duratec (FORD?) power then why chain drives? Thinking about converting the gearbox means making drive sprockets where drive shafts would be??
Whats the point?
i had the same question? FWD gearbox would work easily, no?
600 BHP per ton, Stylus Brought back from the dead! Turbo Rotary Powered!
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JoelP
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 10:33 PM |
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having the chains moves the engine forward from the rear axle, so it could be for packaging issues, ie a boot.
Would be interesting to see how the rear dedion copes with roll etc. There must be some compliance in the link between the sprockets.
[Edited on 6/1/09 by JoelP]
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Mansfield
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 10:36 PM |
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I still cant see it, looks like the bolt is on the same centre as the cv joint. Thinking about it - what would that bolt to, everything is turning?
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Mansfield
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 10:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Would be interesting to see how the rear dedion copes with roll etc. There must be some compliance in the link between the sprockets.
[Edited on 6/1/09 by JoelP]
That is a damn good point.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 10:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mansfield
quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
What about the varying chain length? (it will change wont' it)
Alan
Can the chain length vary with this set up? Wouldn't that require the 'swing arm to change in length as well? If it doesn't
change, the suspension won't work. Or am I being thick?
The sprocket nearest the front of the car is not in-line with the 4 link pivots in that shot, which will give varying chain length as the suspension
compresses.
This is why bikes have the output sprocket from the gearbox as close as possible to the swing arm pivot.
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rachaeljf
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 10:43 PM |
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I too can't see how that suspension geometry works without binding. It appears that the two trailing link rods will force the rear hub to move
in an arc, which will have to match the arc that the trailing arm will force upon the hub. There are too many constraints to movement.
May we see a wider view of the rear suspension?
Cheers R
[Edited on 6/1/09 by rachaeljf]
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 10:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Would be interesting to see how the rear dedion copes with roll etc. There must be some compliance in the link between the sprockets.
I don't think so, I would expect the front sprocket on each side to be driven via normal driveshafts and CV joints, which will allow the entire
chain sprocket assembly to articulate with the axle.
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Mansfield
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 10:52 PM |
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The sprocket nearest the front of the car is not in-line with the 4 link pivots in that shot, which will give varying chain length as the
suspension compresses.
Surely the chain length can only vary if the swing arm length changes, from the picture it looks like the front sprocket and front swing arm pivot are
coaxial. If that were the case the four holes could be for chain adjustment.
[Edited on 6/1/09 by Mansfield]
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mark chandler
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 11:01 PM |
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I’m struggling to see how it works with camber in roll?
Maybe the front sprocket locates on the gearbox output shaft which is mounted in a outboard bearing with the CV joint at the sprocket end and the
whole assemble tilts, Lots more pic’s please its intriguing
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 11:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
Maybe the front sprocket locates on the gearbox output shaft which is mounted in a outboard bearing with the CV joint at the sprocket end and the
whole assemble tilts, Lots more pic’s please its intriguing
I suspect this is the case, as mentioned.
quote:
Originally posted by Mansfield
Surely the chain length can only vary if the swing arm length changes,
The physical chain length obvioulsy can not vary, but the distance between the sprockets will vary if the assembly is as per the current pictures
because the front sprocket (the one driven by the gearbox) is not in-line with the front 4-link pivots, it's behind them. This will make the
sprockets move closer together as the links move away from the horizontal in either direction.
[Edited on 6/1/09 by MikeRJ]
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Mansfield
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 11:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
Lots more pic’s please its intriguing
Couldn't agree more, and while I don't quite understand the back, I can't argue with the front - that looks very tidy.
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Mansfield
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| posted on 6/1/09 at 11:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
This will make the sprockets move closer together as the links move away from the horizontal in either direction.
That is the bit I don't get, I can see that the sprocket centres need to vary or the suspension will bind up, I can't see how the centres
vary with this lovely aluminium fabrication fixing their centre distance.
 
Description
[Edited on 6/1/09 by Mansfield]
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Alan B
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| posted on 7/1/09 at 12:54 AM |
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I'll reword what I meant to say...
The chain length would need to vary, but as is ponted out it can't due the fixed arm. So it must either a) have the front or rear sprocket
floating or b) it will bind due to conflicting arcs of movement.
Thats how I see it.
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trikerneil
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| posted on 7/1/09 at 05:43 AM |
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Or (c) the chain will have a bit of slack in it the way motorcycles do.
That bit is easy I would think it's the camber change that will give problems. Drive chains don't like being twisted, I've had
similar problems myself.
Neil
[Edited on 7/1/09 by trikerneil]
ACE Cafe - Just say No.
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procomp
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| posted on 7/1/09 at 07:59 AM |
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Hi
One of five MSA spec roll bar and going to all the trouble of moving the drive rearwards. Is this the new Eclipse car that is being built for the 750
kits.
Cheers Matt
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JoelP
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| posted on 7/1/09 at 08:35 AM |
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i think the entire chain moves with the rear axle. That bent fabriaction keeps the chain taut, and the front sprocket must have some freedom to move.
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idl1975
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| posted on 7/1/09 at 09:09 AM |
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The chain will stretch, is what (for the benefit of other posters) I understand you to mean.
Answer would appear to be that the sprocket on the right is on an eccentric. Loosen and rotate to move the sprocket out or in. Same as the chain
tension adjusters on my KTM Duke (and I believe on a VFR or any single-sided Duc).
quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
Funny..I thought of using that method of power transfer for an off-roader I was designing...stops you having to rely on high angle CVs with long
travel. What about the varying chain length? (it will change wont' it) My version had the same centre distance and was parallel so no length
change.
Looks good..I'm interested to hear the thinking behind a lot of it.
Alan
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 7/1/09 at 09:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mansfield
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
This will make the sprockets move closer together as the links move away from the horizontal in either direction.
That is the bit I don't get, I can see that the sprocket centres need to vary or the suspension will bind up, I can't see how the centres
vary with this lovely aluminium fabrication fixing their centre distance.
Description
[Edited on 6/1/09 by Mansfield]
Sorry I worded that quite poorly! The sprockets can't (apparently) move in relation to one another, but if the front sprocket location is fixed,
they would need to to prevent binding. Maybe another way of saying this is that as the suspension moves up and down, the front sprocket will be
moving forwards and backwards.
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JoelP
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| posted on 7/1/09 at 01:48 PM |
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i think ive got it, in pic 3 you can see something above the sprocket, i believe this is a vertical arm that allows it to move fore and aft, probably
with enough compliance to cope with roll too. The cv's would be fine with this and the arm between the sprockets would hold the chain taut.
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