NS Dev
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| posted on 16/5/05 at 03:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Syd Bridge
quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
I don’t believe in all the motorsport bullspit, but I do believe in accurately jigged chassis and wishbones. I can’t comment on the system
used to produce the ones you refer to, but I have been in motorsport for forty years and the wishbones I make in my jigs don’t move one jot. There
would be no point in making the jigs otherwise. Attention to welding sequence plays a major part in the accuracy of any welded structure. If one of my
wishbones “pinged like a tw4t”, I wouldn’t use it because the inbuilt stresses and tension would soon fracture it and cause undue wear to the rod ends
too.
As for obtaining accuracy of 2mm over a 3m chassis, it is doable. Even my off-road chassis are close to that and I’ve built bitumen cars and
road-going cars within those parameters. If you don’t believe it’s possible, then you’ve not learned much about car construction in your twenty years.
Judging by some of your comments like “swear all you like mate doesn't bother me …. that's there problem not mine.” you’re evidently a
fairly coarse individual who would probably be oblivious to the finer points of many disciplines.
Don’t put others down and make disparaging remarks about those who strive for near-perfect results just because you don’t know any different.
Pot, kettle, black, come to mind. Eh Rorty?
Makes I larrf it do!!!
Now back to oblivion and sanity.
Thought you might have followed that one Syd!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/5/05 at 04:02 PM |
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Pat - I'll avoid all the muck flying around and say that I cant see anything wrong with doing what you're doing .
Ive just bought some GTS bones but then I found that my chassis isnt actually book and the wishbone mounts are approx 10mm wider apart than book, so
Im doing similar and converting to rod ends although on all 4 joints rather than just two.
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Mix
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| posted on 16/5/05 at 04:10 PM |
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Sorry Bob C but if I remember correctly when applied to cortina uprights 1mm = about .25 degrees so rose joints are fine as far as adjustments are
concerned.
Mick
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Triton
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| posted on 16/5/05 at 04:53 PM |
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Rorty me old duck,
If you can get within 1 to 2 mm over the length of a chassis then you should be a very rich bloke. and have every single F1 team banging on your door
because even they can't do it with all those boffs and fat wallets.
As for me being a knob?.......thought everyone knew that
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Bob C
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| posted on 16/5/05 at 08:17 PM |
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<<Sorry Bob C but if I remember correctly when applied to cortina uprights 1mm = about .25 degrees so rose joints are fine as far as adjustments
are concerned.
Mick>>
Doh - I'm going to have to work it out now - that was why I did my susp. joints the way I did. vertical separation at chassis ~200mm, pitch
1.25mm so arcsin(0.625/200)=0.18degrees
so you can get within 0.1 degrees of your required setting - accurate enough for most I reckon!
Bob
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Rorty
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| posted on 16/5/05 at 09:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Pat - I'll avoid all the muck flying around and say that I cant see anything wrong with doing what you're doing .
Ive just bought some GTS bones but then I found that my chassis isnt actually book and the wishbone mounts are approx 10mm wider apart than book, so
Im doing similar and converting to rod ends although on all 4 joints rather than just two.
Chris, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against using rod ends for wishbone pivots; I used to do it frequently myself.
I was just despairing at the methodology of bunging in one rod end to patching up a bad wishbone. 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Avoneer
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| posted on 16/5/05 at 09:59 PM |
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Hi Rorty,
I can see where you were coming from and why and I hope you can see that as I have the rose joints and threaded inserts, why it would have been the
easiest answer for me.
If I were to do all four lower mountings with rose joints, would this make everyone happier, even though it seems like a drastic solution to the
original problem - but would look good and different though.
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Rorty
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| posted on 16/5/05 at 11:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Avoneer
Hi Rorty,
I can see where you were coming from and why and I hope you can see that as I have the rose joints and threaded inserts, why it would have been the
easiest answer for me.
If I were to do all four lower mountings with rose joints, would this make everyone happier, even though it seems like a drastic solution to the
original problem - but would look good and different though.
Pat...
Pat, You're better off sticking with bushes on your wishbones than rod ends (I assume you're going to use the car on the road rather than
the track and that's why you initially chose bushes).
If the wishbone in question is definitely twisted (lay it on a hard flat surface and either try and rock it or just "eyeball" it with a
straight edge), then I'd recommend replacing it with one that's known to be OK, or repair the one you have to its proper configuration.
Introducing a rod end into a wishbone like you're proposing to do is just a sloppy, lacklustre bodge. IMHO of course. What's the old
saying?.... "Why spoil the ship for a halfpenny worth of tar".
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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pbura
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| posted on 16/5/05 at 11:37 PM |
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I was looking into the issue of using a vertical vs. horizontal bolt for rod ends on wishbones, so I did a number of image searches on Google for
pictures. I only found ONE picture of a car (an F1 racer) with vertical bolts. I know it's the best way, but there sure are a helluva lot of
cars running around with horizontal bolts. Just an observation.
Re: Pat's problem, I don't see any particular harm in using a bushing on one side and a rose joint on the other so long as neither is
unduly loaded. One benefit (beside moving on for the present) would be a partial reduction in noise and vibration. He can always put new bones on
the To Do list.
Pete
Pete
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Rorty
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| posted on 16/5/05 at 11:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pbura
I was looking into the issue of using a vertical vs. horizontal bolt for rod ends on wishbones, so I did a number of image searches on Google for
pictures. I only found ONE picture of a car (an F1 racer) with vertical bolts. I know it's the best way, but there sure are a helluva lot of
cars running around with horizontal bolts.
Pete
The gains of mounting rod ends vertically can only be realised if they're mounted in double shear. There are advantages to mounting rod ends
vertically, but packaging often over rules.
I have only mounted rod ends vertically on a track few cars with limited suspension travel. I more often mount them horizontally as it's then
easier to mount them in double shear.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Fred W B
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| posted on 17/5/05 at 05:50 AM |
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On my first suspension mock up I put bolts vertically through rodends. Could not get any thing like enough travel
Cheers
Fred WB
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 17/5/05 at 11:57 AM |
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Hi Rorty,
I agree with what you are saying but the way I read it was that one eye on Pat's wishbone was wonky, not the wishbone itself? By chopping off
the eye to put on a rose joint he's getting rid of the offending part by default so what's left is a sound wishbone assuming he welds on
the rod end sleeve properly.
If its the actual wishbone that is wonky then yep I agree, change it and don't use the rod end to dial out an inherent misalignment in the
wishbone.
Chris
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Avoneer
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| posted on 17/5/05 at 09:51 PM |
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Hi,
Chris is spot on.
One arm of the bone has just been welded slightly too high and off centre on the eye - as per this pic.
It's only a few mm but enough to slightly concern me.
Pat...
 
Rescued attachment Bone eye.JPG
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Rorty
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| posted on 17/5/05 at 10:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Avoneer
Hi,
Chris is spot on.
One arm of the bone has just been welded slightly too high and off centre on the eye - as per this pic.
It's only a few mm but enough to slightly concern me.
Pat...
I wouldn't be too concerned about that as long as the welding is OK and the eyes are in perfect alignment. If not, then my previous rants apply.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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