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Suspension bush bolts
bigandy - 30/12/04 at 04:58 PM

Afternoon all!

I was just wondering what the general consensus of opinion was regarding the bolts used to bolt up the suspension arms. I know they are a clamping device only, not a pivot, but should they be greased on assembly or not?

Just wondering

Cheers
Andy

craig1410 - 30/12/04 at 05:02 PM

I have because I want to avoid any corrosion between the crush tube and the bolt. I used copper grease as an anti-sieze rather than lubricant for this reason.

Cheers,
Craig.

bigandy - 30/12/04 at 05:26 PM

Aaah, it seems great minds think alike. I initially thought that copper grease would work between the bolt and inner bush tube thingy, just to stop any binding/corrosion.

It's good to get a little reassurance every so often!

Now, I just need to fins somewhere to get some 0.5mm M12 washers! anyone got a link?

Cheers
Andy

Northy - 30/12/04 at 06:10 PM

Not again.... Rescued attachment can_o_worms.jpg
Rescued attachment can_o_worms.jpg

bigandy - 30/12/04 at 06:26 PM

Ah. Apologies, even though they look like some top quality worms though!

Cheers
Andy

craig1410 - 30/12/04 at 08:53 PM

I must admit, I had forgotten about the long running debate on this subject a while back. However, if it is the one I'm thinking of then it was more about whether the crush tube should pivot on the bolt or not. I think most of us came to the conclusion that the bolts should be tightened and thus the crush tube does not pivot in relation to the bolt and thus the grease is only useful for anti-sieze/anti-corrosion.

QUICK, put the lid back on the can o worms before any more get out!!


Cheers,
Craig.

Northy - 30/12/04 at 09:09 PM

Rorty - 31/12/04 at 03:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bigandy
Afternoon all!

I was just wondering what the general consensus of opinion was regarding the bolts used to bolt up the suspension arms. I know they are a clamping device only, not a pivot, but should they be greased on assembly or not?

Just wondering

Cheers
Andy

Ordinarry engine oil was used by the masses for years as an assembly lubricant, but the drawback is that it's messy during assembly, and will attract dirt in service.
ALL fasteners should be lubricated and the modern dry lubricants are ideal for the average handyman.
Fastener manufacturers sometimes use various cold/baked on dry lubricants which is good, but not all and not all the time.
If you can't find a proprietry dry lubricant, you can easily make your own dip by disolving a little candle or bee's wax and graphite or molydbenum disulphide in some turps. This will dry on the surface of the fasteners after dipping them and doesn't wear off easily when handling them.
Stainless fasteners require a bit more attention as they can gall causing reliability and dismantling issues. Again, there are proprietry anti-galling pastes and coatings about.

Just came across this crowd in the UK who make various coatings: Teer Coatings.

[Edited on 3/1/05 by Rorty]

NS Dev - 31/12/04 at 02:35 PM

The suspension should most certainly NOT pivot on the bolt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The bush should swivel on the tube!!!!!!! The tube should be pinched tight in the bracket, and the bushes then have a small cheek clearance against the bracket at each side. If you shim the bushes in the bracket, the shim needs to space the tube and bush together, not just the bush.

JoelP - 31/12/04 at 03:32 PM

on that best-forgotten thread, everyone agreed that the bush pivots on the crush tube. The source of contention was whether the bush should be slightly longer than the crush tube (ie pinched by a few thous) or slightly smaller, and free to wobble.

I personally couldnt care less, and i do apolloguise for bringing the matter one step nearer to the surface...

maybe if we could all agree not to comment either way on this matter, and let newbies just search and find the thread themselves? either way...

craig1410 - 31/12/04 at 06:13 PM

Joel,
Yes I am one of those who agreed 110% that the bolt should be tight but I do recall someone (or more than one) thought that having the bolt not fully tightened was a valid solution.

IIRC, it was not long after I joined this forum and I can't remember who argued this particular point and whether they were just making an obscure point which may be valid in 0.1% of scenarios. This does sometimes happen as many of you will be aware. My worry is if a Newbie (like I was back then) comes along and misunderstands the unique scenario where a given obscure solution IS perhaps valid and then uses that solution in a more standard scenario.

Anyway, my advice is to take all advice on any forum as if it was from some stranger you just bumped into in the pub. You'll soon get to know who's advice you can trust and that is when the forum really becomes useful.

On the spacer washers, I am using large 32mm zinc plated penny washers (from Screwfix) which I think are around 1.4mm thick each. They have a 10mm centre hole to match my bolts and as luck would have it they are almost exactly the same outer diameter as my Nylon bushes. I have a total of four washers fitted on each bolt, two each side of the bush, to enable me to adjust my castor angle. I have designed out the book error so I should have about 5 degrees to start with and can vary this from something like 3 degrees to 8 degrees by moving washers around on both the top and bottom wishbone. I have also applied some copper grease between the washers so my suspension has a nice fluid motion as the washers tend to slip rather than the nylon to washer interface. I did ensure that my crushtube was 0.5mm longer than my assembled bushes as well otherwise it was a bit tight.

Cheers,
Craig.

Rorty - 31/12/04 at 08:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
I have also applied some copper grease between the washers so my suspension has a nice fluid motion as the washers tend to slip rather than the nylon to washer interface.

You could have used tabbed washers and bend the tabs over so they lock into a notche filed into the under sides of each bracket (BTDT).
Alternatively, you could pin or screw the washers through the sides of the brackets.

stephen_gusterson - 1/1/05 at 01:16 AM

i specifically remember at least one person strongly arguing the bolt could be a pivot........ not me btw


atb

steve

Rorty - 1/1/05 at 01:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
i specifically remember at least one person strongly arguing the bolt could be a pivot........ not me btw

Notice how I've avoided the mention of b@lts being used as piv@ts, because as sure as I do, That Certain Person will launch another assault on me. Good entertainment for a while, but his limited kerbside vocabulary has become boring.
Meanwhile, I've been a really good boy and just stuck to the original query and avoided several peoples attempts to kick off another manic bombardment.
Let's wait and see if he can resist the temptation.

Cita - 1/1/05 at 08:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
i specifically remember at least one person strongly arguing the bolt could be a pivot........ not me btw

steve


Putting some oil on the fire Steve?

Rob Lane - 2/1/05 at 07:56 PM

Don't care either way you fasten them BUT I will say this, having now dismantled two complete sets of wishbones and trailing arms from two cars, put copper grease on the bolt shank before assembly. Not on threads otherwise locknut is lubricated. Put some on final exposed threads when tightened to add a bit of rust prevention.

My car has to have the bolts cut through with a hacksaw to free the wishbones. I did not use copper grease and the bushes are well seized onto bolt shaft !!!

The new project car has been stood in a dry garage for 12 years after being on the road for 1 year. All bar 4 bolts were copper greased, guess which 4 bolts had to be sawn through? The 4 had seized onto bolt shank, believe me they just will not free withought damaging the bolt and bracket.



[Edited on 2/1/05 by Rob Lane]

stephen_gusterson - 2/1/05 at 07:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cita
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
i specifically remember at least one person strongly arguing the bolt could be a pivot........ not me btw

steve


Putting some oil on the fire Steve?


no.... just pointing out that everyone didnt agree

atb

steve

Cita - 2/1/05 at 09:18 PM

OK

bigandy - 3/1/05 at 03:41 PM

A healthy dose of copper grease between bolt and bush (inside the crush tube bit) it shall be then.

If there is one thing more annoying than getting your knob caught when aipping up your jeans, it is siezed bolts...

Cheers folks!
Andy