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Rose joint to replace transit drag link

CosKev3 - 27/12/15 at 03:13 PM

Found a bit of info on the above after a search,but quite old threads.

Thinking of making my new wishbones to use a rose joint rather than the current transit drag link.

Will a good quality 1/2 UNF male rose joint be strong enough?

The rose joint will be screwed into a camber adjuster to allow in situ adjusting.

My plan is to weld a bolt into the mushroom,then use a rose joint with misalignment spacers,a safety washer and a nylock nut.

After Googling it I see MNR use a similar set up,anyone had failures etc using a rose joint in this position?

Cheers

coozer - 27/12/15 at 04:15 PM

The Midlana uses a spherical bearing in this location. Its fixed as in sitting in the cup welded to the wishbone which is fully adjustable via rose joints at the chassis end and an adjustable turnbuckle at the rear.

Any reason why you don't like the transit drag link?

CosKev3 - 27/12/15 at 04:20 PM

Ok cheers.
The only reason I've looked into it is due to the size of the in situ camber adjusters required for the transit drag links,they look massive.
The ones I'm using for the top bones on the rear with a 1/2UNF rose joint would look loads better on the front.

britishtrident - 27/12/15 at 06:09 PM

1/2" unf shank in single sheer + bending ......... would not be my choice.

A!so you won't find a rose joint with along enough shank to allow using a camber adjuster sleeve.

[Edited on 27/12/15 by britishtrident]

Doctor Derek Doctors - 27/12/15 at 06:27 PM

There are loads of cars using a 1/2" UNF rod end on the top front outer wishbone joint. I believe its standard on Westfield sprint car and have seen loads of big power westies on slicks running this set-up in Motorsport so its perfectly up to the job.

[Edited on 27/12/15 by Doctor Derek Doctors]

CosKev3 - 27/12/15 at 07:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
1/2" unf shank in single sheer + bending ......... would not be my choice.

A!so you won't find a rose joint with along enough shank to allow using a camber adjuster sleeve.

[Edited on 27/12/15 by britishtrident]

Ah right thanks for your input.

is that just your opinion on the length or is there a minimum length the thread should be screwed in by?

Because currently on my Mac1 built wishbones my front transit drag links have 13mm of thread inside the wishbone,and the top adjuster on the rear wishbone is into the wishbone by 20mm.
The new rear top wishbone with in situ camber adjuster fitted the rose joint is into the adjuster by 25mm,this is the minimum it will be in by as it will increase once the camber is set up.
All of the above don't include the thread inside lock nuts.

I have seen a manufacturer built top rear wishbone using a rose joint that only used a nut welded into the end of the wishbone for the rose joint to screw into!

So my in situ adjuster will have at least double the thread length inside it compared to that.

quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
There are loads of cars using a 1/2" UNF rod end on the top front outer wishbone joint. I believe its standard on Westfield sprint car and have seen loads of big power westies on slicks running this set-up in Motorsport so its perfectly up to the job.

[Edited on 27/12/15 by Doctor Derek Doctors]

Ok thanks that's great.

CosKev3 - 27/12/15 at 07:06 PM

Description

That pic is the current top rear adjuster,20mm inside the wishbone.

garyt - 27/12/15 at 07:07 PM

as your making a new wishbone , you have the rose joint and adjuster, screw it all the way in and subtract from your known one thus extending your new wish bone, out wards maximising the supported thread. Provided you haven't already dismantled your old one , you already have a known starting point in chassis pickup to upright length. hope that makes sense

phelpsa - 27/12/15 at 07:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
1/2" unf shank in single sheer + bending ......... would not be my choice.

A!so you won't find a rose joint with along enough shank to allow using a camber adjuster sleeve.

[Edited on 27/12/15 by britishtrident]

I disagree with both of these statements.

CosKev3 - 27/12/15 at 07:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by garyt
as your making a new wishbone , you have the rose joint and adjuster, screw it all the way in and subtract from your known one thus extending your new wish bone, out wards maximising the supported thread. Provided you haven't already dismantled your old one , you already have a known starting point in chassis pickup to upright length. hope that makes sense

Cheers that's basically what I've done,but you need to leave some thread for adjusting the camber!

[Edited on 27/12/15 by CosKev3]

hizzi - 27/12/15 at 09:07 PM

mcgill motorsports do all the different rose joints, they also sell weld in threaded bushes to go with them and dust covers, very good to deal with

CosKev3 - 27/12/15 at 09:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by hizzi
mcgill motorsports do all the different rose joints, they also sell weld in threaded bushes to go with them and dust covers, very good to deal with

Yeah cheers that's who I've used so far for my rear rose joints.

MikeRJ - 27/12/15 at 10:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3

I have seen a manufacturer built top rear wishbone using a rose joint that only used a nut welded into the end of the wishbone for the rose joint to screw into!

Certain kit car manufacturers have produced some horrifically bad examples of engineering in the past. I have seen nuts welded onto the end of tubes, and I have also seen them fail. Just because a kit car manufacturer does something, you can't assume it's a well engineered solution (though clearly some manufacturers have a far better track record than others).

[Edited on 27/12/15 by MikeRJ]

CosKev3 - 28/12/15 at 12:59 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3

I have seen a manufacturer built top rear wishbone using a rose joint that only used a nut welded into the end of the wishbone for the rose joint to screw into!

Certain kit car manufacturers have produced some horrifically bad examples of engineering in the past. I have seen nuts welded onto the end of tubes, and I have also seen them fail. Just because a kit car manufacturer does something, you can't assume it's a well engineered solution (though clearly some manufacturers have a far better track record than others).

[Edited on 27/12/15 by MikeRJ]

Yeah I totally agree,no way would I consider using such a small thread length into a wishbone!

just giving an example of what is in use on some cars.