Steering UJ caused my crash, be aware!!amalyos - 16/9/14 at 09:47 PM
On Saturday, I was taking part in the 750MC RGB race, during the race I had a steering failure and went into the armco at around 60mph.
Luckily I got away with a headache from hitting the cage. The MNR chassis did a magnificent job and the driver cell remained intact.
After investigating the video and parts I discovered the reason for my loss of steering. It was down to an incorrectly manufactured GP4 steering UJ.
The pinch bolt that should locate into the rack shaft groove, is out of position and doesn't locate. This means the only thing stopping it
sliding off the shaft was the clamping force. This wasn't a major issue when I had the paddle shift, as I was continuously pulling the steering
wheel against the paddles, but when I changed to the stick shift, I must have been pulling the steering wheel whilst driving, which eventually pulled
the UJ off the rack!! The 2 freeze frames from my video show that the steering wheel had moved further from the column just before the crash.
Anyone who has a GP4 forged UJ should check them. I'd hate this to happen to anyone else, I was very lucky it happened where it did, even though
I've still written off the chassis
I know no amount of pulling on my wheel will pull on the UJ's. I use an mx5 column and I imagine the Sierra one is the same?
snapper - 16/9/14 at 10:09 PM
Fled your ok
New pants and pin ( or wire lock) the joints
owelly - 16/9/14 at 10:14 PM
I have used several steering u/js on my car over the past few years during its 'development' and quite a few don't use the pinch bolt
to stop the joint pulling off the splines. In fact, some of the splined sections don't have the notched cut-out. I just make sure the column
can't move too far!
gavin174 - 17/9/14 at 05:58 AM
Steve,
if its a manufacturing fault, surely you have comeback with the supplier/manufacturer.
there must be 100's of these fitted on kitcar/racecars and this must be a dodgy batch!!
britishtrident - 17/9/14 at 06:33 AM
I think you will find you have misidentified the problem, it is an issue that has been around for a long time.
What is actually wrong is the bolt you have used to pinch the joint is unsuitable.
On tightening the nut becomes thread bound before sufficient clamping force is exerted on the splines, as a result fretting starts to
occur the splines wear and the situation becomes worse.
britishtrident - 17/9/14 at 06:39 AM
quote:Originally posted by gavin174
Steve,
if its a manufacturing fault, surely you have comeback with the supplier/manufacturer.
there must be 100's of these fitted on kitcar/racecars and this must be a dodgy batch!!
No different from the millions of similar splined joints used on production cars since the mid-1960's.
r1_pete - 17/9/14 at 06:51 AM
Really glad you're OK, and that only welded and folded metal has suffered.
But, you have named a product, and blamed it for an accident on an open forum, if you were the MD of the company who manufactured this component
reading this, what would you do?? I have no axe to grind here just don't want to see your problems get any worse.
BT makes a good point and there are many other factors at play here, tightening torques, steering column location etc. etc.
Andy B - 17/9/14 at 06:52 AM
With reference to the wrong selection of bolt I am not sure we would agree having had multiple issues with multiple suppliers of this very same joint.
The simple fact is that it is a copy of a copy of a copy, manufactured in countries where quality control of both material and machining is dubious to
say the least. It is possible to lay half a dozen joints side by side and not find two machined the same.
On the G1 Sabres we had loads of problems caused by premature wear ( in one case after one qualifying session from new) the joints appear to be cast
from chocolate, the uj's themselves literally lose all integrity after a couple of outings and the bolt location is drilled off in all sorts of
positions.
I can assure you we tried all sorts of tricks to try and solve the issues and it most definitely was not an issue caused by bolt selection.
In the end we adopted the old adage of - if it looks like shite and smells like shite, then it probably is shite and machined our own from scratch
gavin174 - 17/9/14 at 06:53 AM
If the hole for the locating bolt is in the wrong position, and the bolt doesn't sit in the groove on the steering rack spline......l
IT doesn't make a difference what bolt you use.
r1_pete - 17/9/14 at 07:11 AM
quote:Originally posted by gavin174
If the hole for the locating bolt is in the wrong position, and the bolt doesn't sit in the groove on the steering rack spline......l
IT doesn't make a difference what bolt you use.
If the joint in the top picture was sold as an equivalent part number to the middle picture, yes the bolt position is wrong, but only if sold as an
equivalent.
The bolt does matter, too much plain shank and you run out of tightening ability, too coarse a thread and you loose clamping force, a fine thread will
excerpt much more clamping force than a coarse thread tightened to the same torque.
Jon Ison - 17/9/14 at 08:03 AM
If Im understanding correctly (probably not) did the bolt pass through the groove in the shaft ? If not then It wouldn't have got fitted to my
car, if the bolt would pass through without the aid of the groove in the shaft then it also wouldn't have got fitted to my car, maybe I'm
miles off ?
Not trying to be controversial just as I think I see it.
Stot - 17/9/14 at 08:40 AM
I noticed this on my RD joint so I milled the hole to the correct position so the bolt would be in the spline groove and then welded washers onto the
outside edges to keep the bolt in the correct position.
Cheers
Stot
loggyboy - 17/9/14 at 11:55 AM
Looks like the cheaper pressed units will work better than the cast ones.
MK9R - 17/9/14 at 02:10 PM
Im Astounded by some of the replies to this thread!! Steve put this out her to warn people. It wasnt fitted incorrectly or with the wrong bolt, or
lose or thread bound. These things are checked by not only the driver but safety scruitineers. Infact the exact issue of the correct bolts being used
has been checked by the scruitineers on several occasions this season. The item is a piece of crap, it was made incorrectly and unfortunately not
noticed by steve, why would you be checking something like this when you bought it new, well that is unless someone had documented their misfortune
and you had happened to read this.
This is a warning check your uj's instead of critising. Mine are going in the bin and I will be purchasing some safe ones from AB
loggyboy - 17/9/14 at 02:21 PM
Andy - do you details/prices on your ones please?
DW100 - 17/9/14 at 02:23 PM
Yes these do appear to be poor quality copies. It is difficult to tell just from the photos but the middle picture appears to show a forged steel
joint and the top one a cast iron item.
I would also be looking at the steering column design that allows you to pull on the splines.
If the scrutineers have had cause to check the pinch bolt design have there been previous issues?
[Edited on 17/9/14 by DW100]
MK9R - 17/9/14 at 02:26 PM
quote:Originally posted by DW100
Yes these do appear to be poor quality copies. It is difficult to tell just from the photos but the middle picture appears to show a forged steel
joint and the top one a cast iron item.
I would also be looking at the steering column design that allows you to pull on the splines.
If the scrutineers have had cause to check the pinch bolt design have there been previous issues?
[Edited on 17/9/14 by DW100]
Not in the 750mc but there have been a couple of cases of failing in the past year or so. Not sure what the failure was though.
Andy B - 17/9/14 at 02:56 PM
Hi all as requested I have posted up full details and pictures of the joints we had manufactured on our facebook page at
If someone wants to put the piccies up here feel free - I never mastered it
We had these joints manufactured for our Sabre and subsequently our Arion race cars and keep a small quantity on the shelf but in light of Steves
recent accident I am more than happy to get more machined if people want some
best regards
Andy
ps If I screwed the linky thing up just search normally
Thanks for that Loggyboy - it would appear I cocked my link up
britishtrident - 17/9/14 at 03:05 PM
The primary purpose of the groove is to ensure the male and female halves of the joint are engaged to the correct depth before the bolt is inserted.
It is the clamping force that holds the male and female parts.
On some vehicles ( for example Chrylser Sunbeam & Avenger also Triumphs) that have a short shaft with at one end an a male spline at the other
the splined part of the shaft didn't have a groove but instead had a machined flat that allowed for the shaft length to be adjusted and also the
the shaft to be change without disturbing either the rack or the upper steering column.
In the old days when this type couplings were first used on steering racks the bolt would be 5/16" with a thick washer and a spring washer
under a plain nut. If the washers were omitted the nut would run out of thread when tightened and the splines would not be nipped up.
britishtrident - 17/9/14 at 03:08 PM
quote:Originally posted by MK9R
Im Astounded by some of the replies to this thread!! Steve put this out her to warn people. It wasnt fitted incorrectly or with the wrong bolt, or
lose or thread bound. These things are checked by not only the driver but safety scruitineers. Infact the exact issue of the correct bolts being used
has been checked by the scruitineers on several occasions this season. The item is a piece of crap, it was made incorrectly and unfortunately not
noticed by steve, why would you be checking something like this when you bought it new, well that is unless someone had documented their misfortune
and you had happened to read this.
This is a warning check your uj's instead of critising. Mine are going in the bin and I will be purchasing some safe ones from AB
You clearly don't understand the issue.
loggyboy - 17/9/14 at 03:15 PM
quote:Originally posted by Andy B
Thanks for that Loggyboy - it would appear I cocked my link up
No problem.
They look a work of art... I guess they aren't that cheap to make?
MK9R - 17/9/14 at 03:22 PM
quote:Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:Originally posted by MK9R
Im Astounded by some of the replies to this thread!! Steve put this out her to warn people. It wasnt fitted incorrectly or with the wrong bolt, or
lose or thread bound. These things are checked by not only the driver but safety scruitineers. Infact the exact issue of the correct bolts being used
has been checked by the scruitineers on several occasions this season. The item is a piece of crap, it was made incorrectly and unfortunately not
noticed by steve, why would you be checking something like this when you bought it new, well that is unless someone had documented their misfortune
and you had happened to read this.
This is a warning check your uj's instead of critising. Mine are going in the bin and I will be purchasing some safe ones from AB
You clearly don't understand the issue.
Hahahahaha, Obviously........
Please introduce yourself next time we are all leant over the cars in the paddock, I didnt realise you were there last time
amalyos - 17/9/14 at 08:10 PM
As Austen has said, I put this on as a warning for the Locost community, to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else, as these joints are
probably on most of your cars, if your using an aftermarket joint.
For all you experts that know everything and their cars are perfect, you don't need to bother reading this thread, and your speculation on why it
failed aren't needed, I know why it failed.
myke pocock - 17/9/14 at 09:03 PM
I have to say, having used these kinds of joints on two vehicles, that in my experience the bolt has to line up with the groove in the shaft and
everything has to be prety close to perfectly in line for the bolt to fit through before tightening. If it dont you cannot assemble the joint and
theres something wrong. If the bolt is too slack that should get the alarm bells ringing. Please dont bad mouth those who may be trying to give valid
advice.
amalyos - 17/9/14 at 09:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by myke pocock
I have to say, having used these kinds of joints on two vehicles, that in my experience the bolt has to line up with the groove in the shaft and
everything has to be prety close to perfectly in line for the bolt to fit through before tightening. If it dont you cannot assemble the joint and
theres something wrong. If the bolt is too slack that should get the alarm bells ringing. Please dont bad mouth those who may be trying to give valid
advice.
I'm not bad mouthing anyone, I'm just trying to stop this happening to anyone else!!!
For you information the bolt was tight, and didn't line up with the groove as the hole was machined in the wrong place (check the original post),
it's been spanner checked after every race, and checked and passed by Scrutineering at 7 race events this year. How many times do you check all
the bolts on your car??
Duncan36 - 17/9/14 at 09:38 PM
Well done Steve for pointing this out. Nice to see apart from one arrogant arsehole, most are pleased for the heads up.
While I agree that the clamping force is what holds everything together, the groove and shank is what stops it from pulling apart, should the clamping
force come slightly less than needed.
MK9R - 17/9/14 at 09:41 PM
If I were you ste i'd delete this thread and let all the sanctimonious pricks out there take their chances. The race cars are checked more in a
weekend than most road cars are 5 years so their perfect build should save them for the first few years....
[Edited on 17/9/14 by MK9R]
[Edited on 17/9/14 by MK9R]
Andy B - 18/9/14 at 12:36 AM
I find it incredible that a post aimed at bringing a wider awareness of a potentially serious issue that could have such serious consequences
can't be taken for exactly what it is. Steve, having suffered a really nasty accident as a result of component failure saw fit to to try a raise
awareness in an attempt to save some other unfortunate from the same or possibly worse, I am certain that his intention was never to raise a debate on
the quality or lack of, of the component in question.
I however will - as a manufacturer it is my responsibility to try and provide my drivers and customers with equipment of a suitable quality and that
is fit for purpose. We have tried a number of these joints from different suppliers and they have all Been utter garbage, working loose, uj's
disintegrating , failing to clamp and at very least leading to large amounts of slack in the steering action. I think after all the years building and
racing these cars we are well aware of how to assemble a steering joint.
The simple fact is at £26 a joint and bearing in mind there is shipping and a profit being made on that, what quality do you expect to get, the
examples we have seen were so badly formed that they wouldn't clamp and needed slots widening, had splines so badly formed they slipped around
the shaft splines and had bolt holes machined in completely random positions. That is not to mention that they are made of some reconstituted steel
that is both soft and brittle.
Trust me if we could use a joint at this price we would as it is hard enough to make a margin on a car but they simply are not up to standard and so
we had to spend a shed load of money designing, machining and stocking something that is.
We have always maintained that if a component can take the kicking we give it racing then generally it is good enough for our trackday and road going
customers and to suggest that experienced racers, designers and builders like Austen and Steve don't understand the issue is just plain
ridiculous and entirely unhelpful.
So could we all just get back to the initial point - check them and if you are in any doubt change them - they don't have to be ours there are
plenty of other quality items out there, you just won't get them for sub £30
Jon Ison - 18/9/14 at 12:37 AM
I'm sorry if my post deamed me to be a santamoniouse prick also I certainly don't believe neither my car or myself perfect, far from it. I
did try to cover myself by saying I was trying not to be controversial, it's not easy to get across what your trying to say with the written word
compared to face to face conversation.
It was right to give the heads up, however if scrutineers are checking this particular bolt/joint due to recent failures in other formulae then surely
part of that check should be that it aligns with and passes through the groove otherwise why bother checking? The bolt didn't line up with the
groove in this case, unfortunate that this wasn't spotted during assembly and anyone else with a similar joint would be well advised to check
there's as the original post suggests.
Duncan36 - 18/9/14 at 06:36 AM
Jon I don't think that was aimed at you. Your posts arent written in the tone Austen was talking about.
Doctor Derek Doctors - 18/9/14 at 04:44 PM
I noticed at Thoresby on Sunday that there was a shead-load of slack in my UJ (same type) after just a couple of trackdays, it was also noted by the
scrutineer who seemed to already be wary of the quality of them.
And no, my bolt hasn't bottomed out causing the slackness because I'm not a cretin and I'm sure the other people who have had issues
with these UJ's aren't either.
I've already contacted Andy to sort out getting an AB Performance replacement, glad I have seen this thread.
yellowcab - 18/9/14 at 06:43 PM
Steve - I thank you for bringing it to the attention of the wider audience.
Some of these replies are just shocking imo, and I agree with Austen… with the replies you've had - just delete the thread and let it happen to
someone else.
Keyboard warriors.
wylliezx9r - 18/9/14 at 07:00 PM
BT wrecks another thread .......what a surprise !
sdh2903 - 18/9/14 at 07:09 PM
quote:Originally posted by wylliezx9r
BT wrecks another thread .......what a surprise !
He's tired cranky, he's been out waving his 'YES' banner all week all round scotlandINDY BIRD - 18/9/14 at 08:38 PM
Seen the video that's a hard hit glad your ok. I'll be checking mine for sure and thanks for the heads up on this even if some people
don't appreciate it, best of luck Steve
Duncan36 - 19/9/14 at 06:30 AM
quote:Originally posted by sdh2903
quote:Originally posted by wylliezx9r
BT wrecks another thread .......what a surprise !
He's tired cranky, he's been out waving his 'YES' banner all week all round scotland
He will be really pissed this morning then ha ha ha ha ha ha
Mr Whippy - 19/9/14 at 06:40 AM
Quality of the joint and selection of bolts aside, I think the real lesson here is that it’s better to have a column that does not put any pulling
force on the joints when the wheel is pulled back.
Many columns have a circlip at the bottom for this very reason and some joints are designed to slide apart in a crash or are just rubber disks which
are only meant to flex. I once had a mk1 fiesta steering column joint pop out whilst driving along due to a plastic spacer being missing under the
steering wheel which, fortunately it braked in a straight line.
If you can pull the column back if the joints are disconnect I’d recommend you redesign it so it won’t
owelly - 19/9/14 at 08:54 AM
See my post on the first page and to concurr with BT:
It's entirely possible that these 'dodgy' joints are not faulty. Perhaps they are supposed to be like that. On my splined sections,
there is no notch or groove machined in for the bolt to locate through. It's up to the person who fits the joint to check it's suitable.
I also agree that the 'heads-up' is a very good idea even if it's just to make sure folks check they have the right joints fitted.
MK9R - 19/9/14 at 09:02 AM
I have the same joints bought from the same place and my bolt has to go through a notch due to its position. So either mine or steves is faulty, take
you chances....
DW100 - 19/9/14 at 09:50 AM
Hope my post didn't come across as sanctimonious. It certainly wasn't intended that way.
Just suggesting that as in most cases there are several contributing factors to this failure.
In its intended / original application (i.e. Escort group 4) the steering column has a large roll pin, washer and plastic bush on the engine side of
the bulkhead to stop you from being able to pull up on the column. This means the joint is effectively trapped between the column and the steering
rack and even if the pinch bolt was to fall out the joint could not come off. This is thought to be a fail safe design.
Another contributing factor could be that the material used was too soft meaning that the splines would fret and wear too quickly.
Mr C - 19/9/14 at 11:02 AM
quote:Originally posted by yellowcab
Steve - I thank you for bringing it to the attention of the wider audience.
Some of these replies are just shocking imo, and I agree with Austen… with the replies you've had - just delete the thread and let it happen to
someone else.
Keyboard warriors.
I'm with Yellowcab on the pitiful responses in this thread. Every now and again it crops up and its the same old posters talking the same old
shite. Puts me off posting, I'm sure it does others. As for BT sometimes its not about the content, (debatable) though the way its delivered.
Though tbh its more about his post count. Perhaps Chris can have sort a special section for the bellends, where they can be knobs together. Or maybe
they might do us all a favour, do the right thing and die by the sword.
Back to the topic. Thanks for posting up, one of my worst fears, steering failure. I'm currently looking at the steering on my build project and
will avoid dodgy parts and scrutinise the components before fitting.
Thanks again.
loggyboy - 19/9/14 at 11:38 AM
Guys Guys Guys, this an open forum, if you don't like what someone says, either ignore it or counter it with fact.
This is aimed at both sides, im not defending BTs manner of posting, or if he is or is not correct.
There's no point jumping up and down about how you dislike someone's comments, opinion or how they are delivered, that's just how some
people are, especially hidden behind a keyboard.
His silence seems to be enough to show he has no backing in his argument, so use your own noggin to come a conclusion on what the facts are.
amalyos - 19/9/14 at 12:07 PM
When I posted this, I wasn't asking or looking for advice.
I think 33 years in Engineering, 20 spent in automotive, 2 rally cars and 2 Kitcar/race cars built qualifies me for most things.
I didn't post all the facts, as I didn't feel the need to or want to discuss them, as you can imagine the crash was a little traumatic.
The post was just an awareness for the Locost community of the risks in using cheap steering UJs, I'd hate for this to happen to someone else.
You can choose to accept the advice or reject it. This post will self destruct in 30minutes.
Thanks to everyone for their best wishes, and to everyone else who preferred to pick holes.....Get a life!!
whitestu - 19/9/14 at 12:09 PM
quote:
Guys Guys Guys, this an open forum, if you don't like what someone says, either ignore it or counter it with fact.
This is aimed at both sides, im not defending BTs manner of posting, or if he is or is not correct.
There's no point jumping up and down about how you dislike someone's comments, opinion or how they are delivered, that's just how some
people are, especially hidden behind a keyboard.
His silence seems to be enough to show he has no backing in his argument, so use your own noggin to come a conclusion on what the facts are.
+1 It seemed to me that BT was trying to help, albeit in a fairly robust mannner, and from the point of view of what the original post was about i.e
helping people avoid making the same mistake, I think his input was valuable.
r1_pete - 19/9/14 at 12:19 PM
It seems people are getting upset as to whether the position of the bolt is correct to require a groove, or not, both bolt locations are correct, but
for different applications, some installations have a groove, some don't, so both components are equally correct from that angle.
What is incorrect is to be supplied or fit a joint with an outset bolt to a shaft with a groove requiring an inset bolt, vice versa just won't
fit, so, to say one component is crap, shite etc. from the bolt location alone is incorrect, from a material, machining quality aspect they may well
be a pile of crap.
I absolutely agree with the heads up, and that folk should check their application, and also other methods of longitudinal column location, as I said
in my early post.
So if that makes me fall into any of the derogatory categories referred to, so be it, but I'm sure the many people I've helped, advised
worked with/for, given and loaned parts, tools and time to, would disagree.
loggyboy - 19/9/14 at 12:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by amalyos
When I posted this, I wasn't asking or looking for advice.
I think 33 years in Engineering, 20 spent in automotive, 2 rally cars and 2 Kitcar/race cars built qualifies me for most things.
I didn't post all the facts, as I didn't feel the need to or want to discuss them, as you can imagine the crash was a little traumatic.
The post was just an awareness for the Locost community of the risks in using cheap steering UJs, I'd hate for this to happen to someone else.
You can choose to accept the advice or reject it. This post will self destruct in 30minutes.
Thanks to everyone for their best wishes, and to everyone else who preferred to pick holes.....Get a life!!
There's no need to delete, there is some constructive information in here worth keeping, and its easy enough to read past the arguments.
Whilst your intent may have been to make people aware, but on an open public forum you have to accept that other people will add their own points of
view, right or wrong, wanted or not.
MikeRJ - 20/9/14 at 12:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by Andy B
I find it incredible that a post aimed at bringing a wider awareness of a potentially serious issue that could have such serious consequences
can't be taken for exactly what it is
I find it incredible that you and others can't understand what BT is saying; it should be crystal clear to anyone with the most basic engineering
background.
The bolt and the groove in the splines are present for location only. Even without this feature (and plenty of older cars don't have this), then
provided there is sufficient joint engagement and that the bolt is supplying sufficient clamping force, it would be impossible to pull apart the
splined joint by hand.
The reason that the joint separated boils down to one of two things:
1) The joint was incorrectly assembled with insufficient engagement of the spline into the UJ.
2) The pinch bolt was not providing adequate clamping force, either due to under tightening, becoming thread bound due to the plain shank being too
long for the application, or (less likely) it was overtightened and stretched well past the yeild point.
If the bolt had been located in the groove then it may well have prevented the joint completely separating, but the loose fitting joint would have
resulted in the splines being stripped off at some point and the same accident occurring.
[Edited on 20/9/14 by MikeRJ]
Mr C - 20/9/14 at 03:30 PM
What is there to understand?? ffs. Just because Youthink people don't get it there's no need to insult their intelligence. I've
no doubt Andy's success owes as much as his engineering expertise as his business acumen and when people like him challenge the comments that
have been posted here, then anyone with any insight and sense would rethink their position on the issue.
The botton line is the steering failed, there's an issue with the joint, be mindful of it when it comes to your own car, end of. there is nothing
else to understand. The OP didn't ask for a detailed post mortem or engineers report or the opinions from the few small minded, arrogant and
egotistical locost keyboard warriors.
This forum could be such a great place if it wasn't for the few. I'm not an engineer, though an enthusiastice amateur, and have tried
previously to post up for advice etc and have got the exact response as in this thread has so now go elsewhere, where posters are more respectful,
sticking to the subject/question, enquiring until the issue is fully understood and offering feedback and advice constructively. Not too difficult in
my book but a struggle for some.
Saddened by the whole attitude thing here. No doubt I'll be flamed insulted etc for the above, feel free, and show yourselves in your true light.
Locost isn't a place I want to be at anymore with BT and his Fanbois, so I'm moving on and be sticking with the crew at SKCC(for a good
laugh) and the midlana forum for my build (for decent technical support)
steve m - 20/9/14 at 04:48 PM
Hi all
So with the OP advice I have just checked my steering UJ (burtons ford part)
I do hope the following makes sense!
The lower portion of the UJ, that goes onto the escort rack DOES mean that with the bolt inserted, and even with out a nut can not be pulled way from
the rack , so that end is fine!
The upper female splined hole, also (on mine) would do the same, so again that is fine
However my steering column that I installed 15 years ago, does not have a cut out for the bolt to locate into, mine just has
a long flat 20mm along the shaft, and if not fitted properly the bolt will not go in so the flat has to be located were the bolt will go through
In my application this is fine, as I don't have a moveable steering wheel, nor a paddle gearchange, plus the only way to take the steering column
out would be to remove the scuttle or the steering rack, as all of it is a very tight fit
I do not wish to be embroiled in all the tittle tattle of who is right or who is a knob etc, but the OP has posted what he feels a safety issue with a
certain part, and thankfully for us, the resulting crash could of been a lot worse
I do hope that some of our members check the linkage, as steering and brakes are the two items that without, the result will not be nice
steve
Andy B - 21/9/14 at 08:09 AM
Hmmmmm - don't think I have ever got sucked into a thread on here quite like this before so here's a parting shot re " I find it
incredible"
Let's apply a simple quality control assessment to the Universal joint shall we?
When installing a uj into a set of yokes shall we retain it by -
A installing a circlip into a machined groove
B drilling and tapping a hole for a retaining bolt to be located in
C neatly dot punch a deliberate deformity to retain it
D thrash the poo out of it repeatedly with some blunt instrument because the sweat shop you work in doesn't supply hammers or the training to
let you know it needs doing only once
Stick with me - now moving on there is a necessity to drill off the clamp bolt hole should we
A build a jig and then machine off the clamp hole accurately time and time again on a dedicated drilling rig
B build a jig and allow our staff to drill off by hand
C stuff the jig show them roughly where it goes and let them dill it off as near as damn it ( centre punching is probably not an option as matey boy
is using the blunt instrument to install the uj's)
Finally we need to cut 36 splines accurately on a 9/16 base circle - do we
A cast our yokes from a certified appropriate grade of steel and then invest in some proper hard tooling that will broach the required splines albeit
the tooling will wear and need replacing regularly to allow for wear and run out and to allow us to maintain our quality standard
B cast our yokes from the softest possible shite that will allow our staff to broach the splines using a wobbled tool repeatedly for the next century
or at least until there are no splines left on the tool, this has the added benefit of making drilling the clamp bolt hole with our blunt bit easier
too
Moving on if you are happy to go ahead installing said joint into an area as safety critical as steering and adding to this your ability to asses
(without even having the joint in front of you ) that it could only fail as a result of incorrect installation or a lack of clamp force, then be my
guest, the good news is I packed in standing at the side of roads cutting people out of their carnage years ago so at least I won't have to
witness the potential mess
[Edited on 21/9/14 by Andy B]
[Edited on 21/9/14 by Andy B]
bigfoot4616 - 21/9/14 at 10:41 AM
have to agree about the poor quality of some of these joints.
when i changed to a sierra column i went for the easy option for the lower column and bought one with splines both ends. soon gave up with it though
as the lower joint no matter how hard i tried tightening it there was still play in the splines(there was plenty of thread on the bolt). i also tried
two upper joints(sierra to escort spline) and both where badly fitting to the triangle part and had play in the joint itself.
a quick search showed it was a common problem so i ended up getting my original lower column modified to fit the sierra upper.
as andy mentions further up, the price of these joints suggests quality wont be that good.
Doctor Derek Doctors - 29/10/14 at 05:05 PM
I have just noticed (while looking for something else) that the cast steering UJ's dont appear to be for sale from Rally Design anymore. Could
there be a known problem with the quality now? Or am I just reading far to much into this.
As someone who used to be an engineer on steering systems for the likes of Ford, Jaguar, Toyota, Fiat, Landrover and Nissan can I add something?
At the factory we never used forged uj's, oem's wouldnt pay the extra, all our joints where folded steel. All made in Japan and shipped over
to be built up. They are safety critical components and manufacturer's do not cut corners on safety.
I used to put them in a machine and load them up in a static twist test, this was always required by oems. I cant remember the figure but a lot of
tons had to applied which always resulted in the bolt stretching but most times the cross in the end bearings popped out before the spread on the ears
slipped the splined male shaft. Some serious deformation occurred before total failure.
I'm not aware of a UJ failing during fit or in service from 1999 to 2009 when I left.
As well as a good made uj you need a good pinch bolt. This is one from the last Toyota Corrola..
The shoulder helps grip the shaft as well as the clamping force.
Just to add they cost pennys to make and hardly had any effect on the pricing of the column.
