Board logo

Brake pipe runs
Skirrow - 19/9/04 at 02:12 PM

Anyone know what the SVA requirements are for free runs of brake and clutch pipe. Will this be ok Rescued attachment piperuns.jpg
Rescued attachment piperuns.jpg

Hellfire - 19/9/04 at 03:42 PM

longest unsupported length for brake pipe is 300mm maximum. Looks like your length is significantly more than that....

Clip it inbetween to escape the rejection slip!

craig1410 - 19/9/04 at 04:21 PM

All you need is a slightly tighter bend at the top and then clip it once to the vertical surface on the way down. Shouldn't be a problem.

Cheers,
Craig.

scutter - 19/9/04 at 07:24 PM

Myself I'd put a small angle bracket onto the cylinder mounting bolt and a P clip to that, It needs something.

ATB Dan

Skirrow - 20/9/04 at 06:15 AM

Thanks guys, I thought it would need another but I was hoping to get away with not having it screwed to the pedal box. The clutch which you see is not the real problem though, it's the 2 brake lines which exit from the other side, it's a confined space and it's going to be a bugger to get a clip in there.

Never mind, at least I know 300mm is the magic number.

Cheers!

stressy - 20/9/04 at 06:41 AM

my car failed sva for a 160mm unsupported length, this was along a straight tube and fitted with plastic p clips. I also failed as you may for running a brake lin close to another component without iversleeving it to avoid abrashion.

Whatever your opinions are, the best bet when doing SVA is to do whatever you are told..........

Skirrow - 20/9/04 at 06:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by stressy
my car failed sva for a 160mm unsupported length, this was along a straight tube and fitted with plastic p clips. I also failed as you may for running a brake lin close to another component without iversleeving it to avoid abrashion.

Whatever your opinions are, the best bet when doing SVA is to do whatever you are told..........


What basis did they faill the 160mm run on? Just it being too long? Does that mean 300mm is not correct, or is it the discretion of the tester?

Think I will get plenty of insulating tape over the pipes at this end just in case, the brake pipes are pretty close to each other and also close to the body and steering rack in places.

stressy - 20/9/04 at 11:09 AM

The SVA manual is for guidance only according to the VI, if the tester deams an item to be of noncompliance he may do so legitimately.

In my case the issue was that i had done it inconsistenly with other areas. i.e. i had it supported every 80mm or so around a particulary region to reduce vibration of a strange shaped run and it was decided i should have done this everywhere else!

I used a length of trimmed plastic pipe over the line where things ran close, the line does not rub on the tube but the tube may rub on the closest other part.

Skirrow - 21/9/04 at 02:42 PM

quote:

In my case the issue was that i had done it inconsistenly with other areas. i.e. i had it supported every 80mm or so around a particulary region to reduce vibration of a strange shaped run and it was decided i should have done this everywhere else!



That's bloody stupid. They are supposed to be testing if it is safe or not, not consistency

stressy - 21/9/04 at 03:21 PM

I wont tell you about the steering whell problem then

Skirrow - 21/9/04 at 05:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by stressy
I wont tell you about the steering whell problem then


No, please do.

stressy - 21/9/04 at 07:48 PM

I purchased a "SVA" compliant steering wheel from a reputable manufacturer. A wheel i know passed on a friends car. On my car i have it mounted on a 3inch extention to get it where i like it but for sva i mounted it as syandard. This left around 40mm between it and my knees.

At the SVA one of the inspectors commented on "oh youve got that wheel" and suggested i should be using a standard ford one. It then took him the best part of 30 mins to measure every feature in order to determine 1 radii to be 0.1mm (approximately) below the minimum, this was where the edge was deformed through te dishing process.

The car failed. I went back with the sierra wheel fitted, which meanmt i had to slip the clutch the hole way there as i could not take me foot off hte pedal cos the wheel was in the way.

When i asked if this was sane, how can i drive the ca like that the comment was something along the lines of "we are not testing whether you can drive the car sir"!!!!!

Anyways passed test drove it outside fitted the other wheel and drove home. As i said before, just do what they tell you andyoull be fine. ( No matter how bonkers it may be)

David Jenkins - 22/9/04 at 07:36 AM

Skirrow,

Please don't take what I say the wrong way, but...

One thing that will impress the SVA man is a neat and tidy layout (the bullshit factor). No matter how safe your installation is, it doesn't look tidy, so the inspector will pay closer attention to it.

The neater it looks, the more relaxed the tester will be.

Advice offered in the best of intentions!

David

Skirrow - 23/9/04 at 12:32 AM

quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Skirrow,

Please don't take what I say the wrong way, but...

David


Don't worry about that, I would rather have you tell me it's no good than the SVA man!

Possibly a stupid question, byt what can I do to neaten it up? I though the pipe looked ok!

stressy - 23/9/04 at 07:08 AM

Id agree with the make it look neat 100%. The SVA man was very impressed by fusebox installation, seatbelt mounts, headlight mounts and handbrake etc purely because they looked neat, he commented on my fabricated turret mounts for the belts manytimes, cmoparing them to the normal gobbed on bit of tube.

David Jenkins - 23/9/04 at 07:40 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Skirrow
Possibly a stupid question, byt what can I do to neaten it up? I though the pipe looked ok!


Hard to define - just make it look like you've really thought about the installation. This includes:

- neat bends
- straight runs are as straight as you can make them (within reasonable limits!)
- use of 'proper' brake pipe clips (you drill a hole, tap the clip in, leaving a neat U-shaped clip to hold the pipe - hard to explain, but cheap and easy to use)
- if you're running 2 pipes, make sure you use double clips, and make the pipes parallel.
- give a LOT of thought for the bits that will come afterwards, such as the wiring loom, water pipes, clutch cable, and so on. NONE of these must be able to rub or vibrate against the brake pipe.
- remember that you will want to bleed these brakes at some time, so try to avoid any potential air traps.
- if you can, run them in places where they won't get knocked when you're working on the engine.

As a guide, have a look under the bonnet of a production car - even a crummy Vauxhall take a lot of care running their pipework.

David

Skirrow - 24/9/04 at 11:49 AM

Ok, well before I start changing how they are near the pedal box I had better let you guys tell me whats wrong with the long runs. I prepared to buy new pipe and start again so feel free to be harsh!

My main questions are....

- Are they neat enough?
- The yellow arrows point to where the clutch pipe runs over the brake pipe clips. The clutch pipe actually touches the screw though. I did it to make it look neater (!) and keep it compact but is this going to be a problem? And should I move the pipe (I could reverse the clips but use the same hole) Or should I tape over the screws or round the pipe.
- Anything else I should be aware of? Rescued attachment piperuns2.jpg
Rescued attachment piperuns2.jpg

Skirrow - 24/9/04 at 11:55 AM

PS. My pipe bender only does the large sweeping bends that you see in the 1st picture. Is it possible to get (a cheap) one that does tighter bends.

And also I had a right bugger of a time getting the coil of brake pipe any where near straight, any tips in this?


And.....
The pipes are single pipes that go from the master cylinder along the floor, through the rear bulkhead and straight to the cluctch slave cylinder, and from the brake master, along the floor, through the bulkhead and to a 3way before shorter runs to the brakes. Am I better using several short runs rather than one long run? 1 long seemed better before I started but it is less manageable and difficult to get bend in the right place and so on.

And..... you should never start a sentence with "and"

Cheers,
Dave

David Jenkins - 24/9/04 at 11:58 AM

Are those pipes in the passenger space? If so, you'll need to box them in to protect them from damage. On a bog-standard Locost the pipes can easily go in the transmission tunnel. Otherwise they look fine, as long as the pipe isn't actually touching (or likely to touch) the clips underneath.

As for benders , you can get a hand-held jobbie that will gve you radii down to 25-30mm, if that's what you need. Fairly cheap, too!

rgds,

David

[Edited on 24/9/04 by David Jenkins]

Skirrow - 24/9/04 at 12:36 PM

Yes the pipes are in the passenger compartment, it's not a locost, it's an off-road buggy with a flat bottom so I didn't want them underneath where they will get ripped off.

The clutch pipe (on the right) touches the screw heads which hold the brake pipe clips in, I take it that I will have to do somehing about this?

Any ideas about the best way to box them off, I thought it would pass the SVA without boxing them off so I was gonna sort that after the SVA just for cosmetic reasons.