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Who would be interested in a fully adjustable indy top wishbone
mad-butcher - 14/4/09 at 06:23 PM

just trying to see how much interest there is out there for a fully adjustable top wishbone for the MK Indy, to see if it's worth while wozsher making some.
hopefully similar to the hellfire one below


tony Rescued attachment hellfire wishbone.JPG
Rescued attachment hellfire wishbone.JPG

Hammerhead - 14/4/09 at 06:29 PM

possibly me

Kev99 - 14/4/09 at 06:36 PM

possibly me too

Staple balls - 14/4/09 at 06:39 PM

Me also, possibly.

eccsmk - 14/4/09 at 06:54 PM

ooh ooh ooh me me me

greggors84 - 14/4/09 at 06:56 PM

You mean with rose joints instead of poly bushes?

Me too, depending on cost.

aka Keith - 14/4/09 at 07:04 PM

Tony, I could be interested, but dependant on pice as always.

Cheers
Craig

mr henderson - 14/4/09 at 07:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by greggors84
You mean with rose joints instead of poly bushes?

Me too, depending on cost.


I should think the main point of the rose joints would be so that the lengths of the wishbone could be altered, maybe make the back shorter and the front longer, so same overall length measured at the balljoint, but more castor.

John

wozsher - 14/4/09 at 07:25 PM

Or maybe castor is altered by adjusting spacers on inboard mount?

mads - 14/4/09 at 07:28 PM

interested too (if they will also fit the Spec R) though I do ask if these would be needed on the Spec R as it is a CAD designed chassis...? anyone know the answer?

907 - 14/4/09 at 07:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson


I should think the main point of the rose joints would be so that the lengths of the wishbone could be altered, maybe make the back shorter and the front longer, so same overall length measured at the balljoint, but more castor.

John





Errr, wot 'e said

Paul G

DIY Si - 14/4/09 at 07:34 PM

I've been meaning to do this for some time, so yeah go on then!

mad-butcher - 14/4/09 at 07:45 PM

I think the idea of using rose joints is not so much for adjustment that would be done with the outer adjuster ( without removing the ball joint ) but more of the fact they are narrow and therefore with the use of spacers can be moved backwards to help the self centering issue with the indy (lack of caster)


tony

wozsher - 14/4/09 at 07:48 PM

Hi Tony did you get u2u

Mark G - 14/4/09 at 07:54 PM

I'd be interested, depending on cost of course.

mr henderson - 14/4/09 at 08:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mad-butcher
I think the idea of using rose joints is not so much for adjustment that would be done with the outer adjuster ( without removing the ball joint ) but more of the fact they are narrow and therefore with the use of spacers can be moved backwards to help the self centering issue with the indy (lack of caster)


tony


As long as there was enough space to achieve the desired castor within the existing bracket that would be fine.

Not really following what you said about the moving the outer adjuster. That would affect the camber, but not the castor

John

mad-butcher - 14/4/09 at 08:15 PM

misunderstanding thought you meant using rose-joints to adjust camber

does anyone know roughly how far back the top wishbone needs to go

tony

[Edited on 14/4/09 by mad-butcher]

wozsher - 14/4/09 at 08:26 PM

How much castor have you at the moment?

mookaloid - 14/4/09 at 10:08 PM

I'd probably have a pair if the price is ok

procomp - 15/4/09 at 07:06 AM

Hi

The problem you have with that question is that no two have the same. In fact the cars have different amounts on either side by quite some margin. But the overall picture is that the lowest i have measured is 1Deg and the highest i have measured is 4.3 Deg if that is off any help. But it also needs to be remembered that there is a large amount of the overall problem based in the lower wishbones and there poor jigging.
Ideally you should be getting the lower wishbones all squared up on the overall setup and then looking at making the top arms to suit. Although this whole process really needs all the brackets taking of and starting a fresh to get it to be right.

Cheers Matt

wozsher - 15/4/09 at 09:02 AM

Cheers Matt
Is the problem with the chassis or wishbones jigging or both?
Cheers Woz

procomp - 15/4/09 at 01:07 PM

Hi

A lot of the problem is in the jigging of the brackets. But also in the chassis as an overall IE Thrust line problems of up to 20" have been measured. It really is a suck it and see as there is no two the same which means it's not a common jig problem just pure inconsistency when using the jigs. The exact same problems can be found on the Mac#1. I assume that if any wishbones are made for the Indy they would also fit the Mac#1 and help with the problems found there also.

Cheers Matt

wozsher - 15/4/09 at 08:57 PM

Comments please on Matts (procomp) post re the Indy Cheers Woz

mr henderson - 15/4/09 at 09:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by wozsher
Comments please on Matts (procomp) post re the Indy Cheers Woz


OK, I'll comment. I've never known Matt to miss an opportunity to slag off the MK Indy.

It may not be perfect, but the truth is that it is a damn good car, especially when the cost is taken into consideration (which it usually is).

I have no idea how many have been made so far, but I am sure that it is a lot, and there are many hundreds (maybe thousands?) of happy Indy owners enjoying their cars.

It's true that there is something of an issue regfarding self centring, and if you were to make some wishbones that would cure this then I expect there would be many hapy customers, especially if you could keep the price within the very reasonable MK context.

John

wozsher - 15/4/09 at 09:27 PM

Thanks for that John, good to get both sides of the story Cheers Woz

procomp - 16/4/09 at 07:26 AM

Hi

Pure and simply measure one up accurately. Anyone who has done so will know exactly what i am talking about. Why exactly do yo think there are so many people out there having to chop brackets of and make new wishbones just to get alignment.

Cheers Matt

PS it was not a slagging of Mk. Merely an attempt to help you identify that you could well be heading into more troubles with the geometry if not also taking the position of the lower wishbone into acount also.




[Edited on 16/4/09 by procomp]

mr henderson - 16/4/09 at 07:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by procomp
it was not a slagging of Mk.


I'm glad you cleared that up, but I am sure you can see how I got that impression, because it certainly read that way.

John

wozsher - 16/4/09 at 08:00 AM

Lets not get into a slanging match here, just wanted to know if other owners had experienced the problems that Matt was describing.
Cheers Woz

procomp - 16/4/09 at 08:38 AM

Hi

No John i do not see how you got that impression. Those comments come from setting up and modifying many MK indy chassis to have geometry to enable them to drive as they should. where as your comments came from ?.


Cheers Matt

[Edited on 16/4/09 by procomp]

mr henderson - 16/4/09 at 12:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi

No John i do not see how you got that impression. Those comments come from setting up and modifying many MK indy chassis to have geometry to enable them to drive as they should. where as your comments came from ?.



So we are back to the old "I believe it to be true, therefore it's OK for me to say it on a public forum, even though I am a competing manufacturer" defence?

The problem is the impression your remarks leave.

As for where my comments come from? well, that would be from having worked on a couple of them, and more particularly from the knowledge that a very large number of happy MK owners are out there, driving their cars and enjoying them despite all these faults that you are making them aware of.

John

procomp - 16/4/09 at 02:44 PM

Hi

I really do give up with this lot. There i was thinking this topic was about someone trying to make a product to help Mk owners gain better geometry from there indy's. John if you have no relevant help on the subject why do you bother getting involved.

I shall leave the playground for john to play in.
wozsher if you would like any other info just contact me on U2U.

Cheers Matt

mr henderson - 16/4/09 at 05:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi

I really do give up with this lot. There i was thinking this topic was about someone trying to make a product to help Mk owners gain better geometry from there indy's. John if you have no relevant help on the subject why do you bother getting involved.

I shall leave the playground for john to play in.
wozsher if you would like any other info just contact me on U2U.

Cheers Matt


I'm speaking on behalf of those MK owners who, although I'm sure they will be interested in an improvement to their cars, do not want to hear them rubbished by a competing manufacturer.

I daresay everything you say is literally true, but that doesn't mean that it is alright to say it in the way that you do. I tried to explain this to you before.

As soon as I read BMW publishing details of faults they have found with the Ford Mondeo (for instance) then it will be OK for you to do the same with the MK Indy. Until then, it won't be.

Hope that makes my position clearer.

John