cd.thomson
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:26 AM |
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sold a car with a fault
Hi guys, merry christmas! Sorry I've been off the radar - exams every 6 weeks have taken me out of the garage to say the least.
I've come to the font of all knowledge for some non-locost car advice.
I sold a saxo recently (a month ago) with a couple of obvious issues (engine warning light was on, citroen couldn't find any fault recorded and
clutch was heavy). I was honest with the sale and sold the car for what it was worth. No warranty was agreed verbally or written. I confirmed
everything with the buyer in writing and he drove it off, texting me that everything was okay once he got home.
Woke up to a text this morning threatening me with small claims court if I don't refund him 50% of the sale because the rear axle needs
replacing. There were no signs of rear axle failure when I sold the car, or before the buyer took it to the garage and no advisories on the last MOT
or the standard citroen healthcheck. There was no way I could have been aware of the fault at the point of sale.
Does anybody know the legalities of this situation? I have a niggling feeling that any fault that develops within 3 months of sale of a car are
assumed to be there before sale and therefore I do have some responsibility to reimburse the buyer but I can't find this rule on the 'net
at the minute.
P.S. I have all the information necessary to prove my engine age now on the Dax, and it's going for test in the new year 
Craig
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jabs
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:33 AM |
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Check this http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_legalrights.html
Private
If you buy privately, you won't be protected legally if the car doesn't come up to scratch. It's up to you to ask the right
questions and have the car thoroughly inspected before you buy.
Safeguards Essentially it's a case of 'Buyer Beware'. As the onus is on you to make sure the car is sound, it's a good idea to
get an independent engineer to give the car a thorough mechanical inspection.
Hidden past Then, there are past owners to consider. You could opt for an AA Car Data Check, which will let you know if there's outstanding
finance on the car, or even if it has a shady history.
Your legal rights are limited and unscrupulous dealers often masquerade as private sellers, so beware.
The only legal terms that cover a private sale contract are:
the seller must have the right to sell the car
the vehicle should not be misrepresented
it should match its description:
for example, if the ad states that there is a valid MOT, there should be a valid MOT.
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:36 AM |
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Thanks a lot for that jabs.
Craig
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mookaloid
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:37 AM |
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I think that the 3 month thing only applies of you are a trader. Tell the chap it was sold as seen and you'd be happy to let the court decide
who is correct.
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 08:39 AM |
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Love the new avatar mook
Craig
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twybrow
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 09:02 AM |
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Sale of Car by Private Seller
"You do not have as many legal rights when you buy from a private individual. A private seller only has to describe the car correctly. He is not
responsible for faults." - Hants Trading Standard website
"If you buy a car from a private seller or at a car auction for traders, you have fewer rights. The car only has to:
match the description given by the seller
be theirs to sell, eg the car isn't stolen or owned by a finance company because the car loan hasn't been paid off." - DirectGov
website
So in summary, tell him to go whistle. As long as you described the car correctly at the time of sale, then you are in the clear. Let him try to take
you to the samll claims court if he wants - you will win.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 09:03 AM |
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If he goes to court he will have to prove that you knowingly sold him the car with a rear axle fault, which you intentionally covered up, the burden
of proof is with the occuser, not the burden of proof of inocence with the 'accused'.
Tell him to bring it on, all he has to loose is about another £600.
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 09:07 AM |
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I've missed this place!
Hope everyone is well, thanks for all the information.
Craig
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 09:08 AM |
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I am no legal expert, but you say you confirmed everything in writing. So you hopefully have kept copies?
The evidence of the previous MoT and citroen healthcheck should support you. And as long as you are not a trader or mechanic, I am certain you have
nothing to worry about.
that aside, I get the feeling small claims courts are largely in favour of individuals when up against big companies, but here I think they really
will want proof that you were out to deceive.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 09:12 AM |
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as above you've nothing to worry about
assuming he's claiming it has the usial rear axle problem then it should have been quite obvious if its that bad - it ends up with huge abounts
of negative camber when the needle rollers fall apart!
quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
Hi guys, merry christmas! Sorry I've been off the radar - exams every 6 weeks have taken me out of the garage to say the least..............
............P.S. I have all the information necessary to prove my engine age now on the Dax, and it's going for test in the new year
your a brave man, exams 3 times a year was more than I could handle 
good luck with the IVA this time round, at least you know what your up against 
[Edited on 22/12/2011 by mcerd1]
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 09:14 AM |
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I still have your IVA bars mate! I think I'll buy you a brand spanking new set from Dax, u2u me your address and I'll get that sorted when
they open up again.
I'll let you know how I get on
Craig
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mcerd1
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 09:18 AM |
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^^ don't worry about the bars, I'm along way of needing them yet....
I'm well on the way to finishing my new shed though:
 
New_Shed
I've added most of the floor since that pic and the doors are getting welded up now
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 09:20 AM |
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Another chancer trying it on; it's amazing how many people these days are unable to accept responsibility for their own incompetence.
Ignore any further contact from him, he simply doesn't have a leg to stand on.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 09:54 AM |
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Sounds like he wants a bit of cash for Christmas 
He is happy with the car or he would be trying to return.
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Benzine
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 10:02 AM |
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welcome back ^_^
lol @ the chap who bought it sending a text about court. A text XD
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Toprivetguns
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 10:32 AM |
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A simple phone call, rather than a gutless text message would of been better.
If you drew up a quick contract stating SOLD AS SEEN, your fine. Do not worry.
Only drive as fast as your angel can fly... !
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RichardK
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 11:57 AM |
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Tell him to go and boil his head and you'll see him in court, bloody chancers wind me up.
Cheers
Rich
Gallery updated 11/01/2011
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Brook_lands
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 12:34 PM |
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As a private sale he has very little come back. From what you have said you have done more than most in describing the car and recording the
transaction. Other than the occasional perversity of the Judge on the day you would be very unlikely to loose in the small claim court and then there
is the question of whether a 50% refund is reasonable recompense, after all they have had use of the car in the meantime.
If you want to be proactive and have an address or email very politely write to him saying that he purchased the car in a private sale, that the car
was accurately described and that all faults known to you at the time of the sale were identified and that unless you receive court papers in the next
7 days (or may be 10 as it is Christmas) then you will consider the matter closed.
[Edited on 22/12/11 by Brook_lands]
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mookaloid
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 01:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
Love the new avatar mook
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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Humbug
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 02:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Brook_lands
As a private sale he has very little come back. From what you have said you have done more than most in describing the car and recording the
transaction. Other than the occasional perversity of the Judge on the day you would be very unlikely to loose in the small claim court and then there
is the question of whether a 50% refund is reasonable recompense, after all they have had use of the car in the meantime.
If you want to be proactive and have an address or email very politely write to him saying that he purchased the car in a private sale, that the car
was accurately described and that all faults known to you at the time of the sale were identified and that unless you receive court papers in the next
7 days (or may be 10 as it is Christmas) then you will consider the matter closed.
[Edited on 22/12/11 by Brook_lands]
+1, and I would add links to the relevant websites as posted above.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 02:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Toprivetguns
A simple phone call, rather than a gutless text message would of been better.
If you drew up a quick contract stating SOLD AS SEEN, your fine. Do not worry.
It makes no difference, providing he did not deliberately lie about the cars condition then he has nothing to worry about.
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Simon
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 03:24 PM |
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Caveat Emptor is all you know to know
Wiki Linki
ATB
Simon
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 04:17 PM |
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I have done all the above, and even told him to get some legal advice before he starts the process but he wont hear it. "It's not about
the money its about the principle".
I'd completely agree with him if I'd been aware it had a bad axle, I would have scrapped it instead.
Off to court I go!
Craig
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scootz
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 04:20 PM |
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I wouldn't worry Craig - the vast majority of folk who come out with that sort of thing don't take it any further.
It's unfortunate for all concerned, but these things happen!
It's Evolution Baby!
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 22/12/11 at 04:22 PM |
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How are you doing Scootz? The white coats managed to make your back any better?
Craig
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