Dear All,
I’m looking at importing a Fisher Fury from Ireland.
The DVLA site seems vague regarding exemptions etc.
My worry is I’ll have to put it through an IVA (no certificate of conformity???)

It was built from a rolling chassis supplied by Fisher in 1996, using an Escort donor (several old MOT certificates in the folder or paperwork)
It was registered in Ireland January 2001

Would it be exempt from IVA ? (I don’t think it would pass with the low headlight on the ‘classic’ bonnet it has.
Would it get an age related plate from the donor based on the presence of a few MOT certificates?

Many thanks in anticipation
Phil

Regisrered I. In 2001?
I believe SVA was in force then so should have SVA even in Ireland.
Anyone else agree or not?

Edited to say ignore this

It was past beer o’clock and I read the post as NI!

[Edited on 8/4/18 by ReMan]

There's no SVA or similar in Ireland. There's no real system to register a kit car over here. Some build a car and send it over to the UK for testing. I'd guess either this or more likely it'll be registered on the log book of the donor.
It's a bit of a minefield and I found it very difficult to find any information when I moved over.

Sorry I can't help with info importing it into the UK but I'd definitely make sure things are properly registered in Ireland.
Feel free to ask any more about registration over here.

It’s got an Irish VRA document, with a note in the restrictions stating ‘assembled from kit’

Looking through the DVLA document V55/5 the notes mention reference to the certificate of conformance for ‘builder’ emissions etc etc.

It’s not looking straightforward is it?

Hmmm. What is it registered as? There's no provision for inspecting kit cars here and registering them. The only thing is if a vehicle has been significantly modified and they have to be inspected by an engineer and signed off.
Is there any reason you're looking at importing from Ireland? The only benefit I can see is you can claim back VRT when it's exported. There must be much more choice in the UK

They are quite rare and it’s ticking all the boxes for me.
Engine, colour, wheels abs looks well built.
What’s the sketch with claiming back VRT then? Who claims it? The seller or the buyer?

If you buy it in Ireland and are the one exporting it, you claim the VRT back (I'll need to check on are car of that age but it'll be circa 30% of the open market selling price). It'll be complex from your point of view as you'll need to arrange a VRT export appointment at one of the NCTS centres (they centralise the MOT equivalent here to test centres). They'll probably look at the car and paperwork then send the application off to Rosslare for some to decide how much it's worth and let you know how much the VRT refund will be based on that (usually takes a few days)
You can appeal the figure as it can be on the low side so I'd advise you to collect adverts for ones for sale to prove their worth.
Im not sure where you are based but its not something you could arrange just popping over to pick up the car.

Is it the one for sale on Donedeal in Kerry?

Yes it’s the car on Donedeal

TBH I think it’ll not easily be registered in the UK without having an IVA
And that will be difficult due to the classic bonnet, no speedo (easily rectified) and it having a hydraulic handbrake

Was it registered in the UK prior to being brought into Ireland? May have been through SVA?
Might be tricky alright if its not.

Unfortunately it wasn’t registered in the uk. It was supplied as a fully labelled rolling chassis from Fisher and completed in Ireland.

I may start having a squint at IVA
Are they a nightmare?

If it has been road reg'd in Ireland since 2001 then registration here should be straightforward, as being older than 10 years (from first registration in another country) it is exempt from an iva test, a copy of the vra certificate will suffice as proof of age.
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exemptions-from-vehicle-approval

For mot purposes, you'll need to revert to a mechanical handbrake, and there may be issues with emissions depending upon what information the vra forward to the dvla; at worst you may need closed loop fuel injection/cat fitted.

Dave

If you are thinking about it, make sure the car is correctly registered in Ireland. There's plenty of dodgy incorrectly registered cars about (particularly kits cars and anything unusual). Would be a right pain to sort out if it's not.
Not sure if you know but Cartell is the equivalent of a HPI check over here.

I have photos of the Vehicle registration certificate. Is it possible to upload then onto this forum somehow?
Regarding the 10 year exemption there’s a ‘may’ slipped in there.

Head here:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php

Click on choose file, select your picture, then click upload.
To embed the pic in a post, click the thumbnail in the photo archive , then copy the forum code above the picture, paste this in your post.

Dave

[img]http://http://locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/67AEA5BD-5946-4DB6-AC7E-3817FB4[/img]

Description

Description

That all looks bona fide, i don't think you'll have any registration issues in that regard, you'll need to get an mot before registration though to complete the registration application.

Dave

Having a quick look there it does seems to be fine. Id be interested to see how it was registered originally over here as its notoriously difficult to register a car that was built over here!

Many many thanks for the input. It’s much appreciated!
It does not have a current NCT as it has no speedo or Catalytic converter.

The issues with an English MOT would be adding speedo and a mechanical handbrake. The engine came from a breakers yard in Ireland so proving its age would be another thing

For the mot, the engine age will not matter after may 20th, thereon the emissions will be based on v5c limits or date of first reg.
It may come back on a q plate depending upon original registration details ( there are not enough details in your pics and they may only be available to vra/dvla) if so the q plate will mean a visual emissions only.

The speedo is not a major problem, a 20 quid ebay special would suffice to pass mot, it just needs to work and have backlighting to pass at minimum.
The handbrake will be the most difficult thing to sort out, depending upon the current brake setup.

Dave

Im feeling quite optimistic but I don’t think I could fill in the V55/4 fully, point 5 and 16 abs all the other emissions related fields.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/v3555-application-for-first-vehicle-tax-and-registration-of-a-used-motor-vehicle-v555

The emissions figures are not applicable to single/individual approval vehicles, so are not required for registration, this does mean the tax will be applied on the older cc based system.
I would approach the seller to confirm whether they have a copy of the (i assume nsai) iva certificate, and whether it has a vehicle type code. If it is present, the last digit will give the tested emissions standard (which may be more lenient than a full cat test).
I posted a list of the applicable emissions limits here:

https://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=211705

Checking the new manual, you will just sneak into engine age based emissions (pre 01/09/2002), but if you have no proof of the engine age this is a mute point.

Point 5 will be as stated on the second bit of the vra certificate, any field that is blank on the vra certificate will also be blank on the first reg application.

I would photocopy the v55/5 and fill it in, then find someone who deals with imported cars to check for errors etc before commiting pen to the original form.
I would also ensure everything is sent by special delivery so if anything is lost you are covered for getting duplicates of the vra certificate etc, as it could prove costly.

for a bit more help, have a look at these links, it's regarding a usa imports but most things are the same.

https://onemanandhismustang.com/importing-cars-from-the-usa-part-1-tax-duties/
https://onemanandhismustang.com/importing-cars-from-the-usa-part-2-dvla-registration/

Dave

fantastic news, very promising, thank you

I've ordered my forms and emailed them asking the question of it being a kit car.


I imagine there is a chance my registration application will get flagged and questioned further eh?


I quite like the thought of the adventure of collecting and the involvement of sorting for an MOT. But the costs are significant (£400 for the return ferry crossing, trailer hire and then cost of passing MOT and registration)

Regarding the engine and proving the age, the engine block states C18XE which was only in production for one year circa 1993 , so, providing I could get 'official' documentation then I should get into the engine capacity bracket then?

regards
Phil

It will depend upon whether you have an engine number on the block, and then whether opel/vauxhall would give a production date from just an engine number.
Having looked at the pics, it looks like it is running standard injection, so should be workable to pass a full cat test with a decent spec cat.
From the mot in service emissions book: Engine Code C18XE/DOHC idle 0.5CO fast idle 0.3CO 200HC 0.97-1.03LAMBDA.

There is a reasonable chance that the dvla will require an inspection - this may be a form that an mot station can check/complete or a proper dvla examination.
I would not worry about this providing everything matches up on the paperwork side - it may be worth getting photos of the vin plate and stamped chassis number to confirm all details, and running it through the cartell vehicle check to be sure.

Dave

If you are going to progress with it, this may help understand the process of the export VRT refund

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/export-repayment-scheme/index.aspx

I'm a natural born over thinker...

I'm worrying that if it needed to pass a current IVA that it would fail on headlight height (it has the classic bonnet ) and replacing the bonnet etc. etc. would be a costly, tiresome process

I'm over thinking aren't I ?
I imagine importing a 1971 MG Midget wouldn't have to have to comply with current legislation (headlight height) therefore a Fisher ( built and registered in another EU country) would be treated similarly. (I think I'm paranoid of peoples views of 'assembled from kit'

Hi all,
I can add a few things on this.

IVA started in Ireland in 2012 via the NSAI government department. Prior to that there was nothing and little if any checks.

You can check current NCT status here.
https://www.ncts.ie/check-nct-due-date/
The NCT standard is higher than that of an MOT.
Engine emissions are based on the age of the engine and these limits for Co and Hydrocarbons are on each NCT cert.
2 stroke, wankle and hybrids are emissions exempt.

There have been a few mentions of vrt when exporting a car.
See here
https://www.ros.ie/evrt-enquiry/vrtenquiry.html?execution=e1s1
The calculator doesn't cover bespoke or rare cars.
VRT is a registration tax based on the current Retail price including this tax. It used to have bands based on engine size but all are now based on the CO2 emissions on the V5C.
It varies from
14% <80 gCo2/km
To
36%. >225 g Co2/km.

If they value the car at €5,000 you will get €700 less €100 fee as your co2 figure on the v5c is <80.
If it said 999 (typical on v5c for pre 2008 car as tax was based on engine size and co2 didn't matter) you would get back €1,800 less €100 fees.
Car over 30 years are exempt.

Phone revenue.ie for a quotation for vrt refund. Reg number is enough. They decide the value not you although you can appeal afterwards.

Would be very interested in what they value it at.

I had huge difficult in registering an Irish reg regular 1995 Clio when I move to the UK in 2002. The DVLA kept asking for more and more documents and a cert of conformity in English for a car made in France that was the same specifications as a UK car anyway. Didn't try too hard so paid no tax for 3 years in either country!

Don't worry about driving it here without tax, just bring insurance and ferry tickets to show if for export. Tax would be €636 for 12 months.

Surely the VRT will be based on engine capacity being registered pre 2008 not the CO2 basis?

quote:

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Originally posted by vonmoogen
Surely the VRT will be based on engine capacity being registered pre 2008 not the CO2 basis?

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I did notice that a valid nct certificate is required to claim back the vrt, and an inspection at an nct centre is also required - it would be a bonus to claim back the vrt, but the logistics of doing that after purchase may be more complex than it is worth.
If the current owner could get the vehicle through nct (which will probably cover all the mentioned mot aspects) , for a split of the vrt refund (assuming 600-1000€) then it may work out in your favour as you would be mot ok on return and have some cash back.

Dave

quote:

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Originally posted by on_eighty_runner

quote:

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Originally posted by vonmoogen
Surely the VRT will be based on engine capacity being registered pre 2008 not the CO2 basis?

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Unfortunately not.
Road tax is based on engine size pre 2008, co2 after.
Co2 applies o all vrt based on what is on the v5c.

A 2003 CL500 cost €188,000 incl vrt new.
Is advertised now for €5000.
Revenue will give you €1,900 based on 36% vrt.

Reason: who wants a car that cost €1,809 a year to tax!

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quote:

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Originally posted by obfripper
I did notice that a valid nct certificate is required to claim back the vrt, and an inspection at an nct centre is also required - it would be a bonus to claim back the vrt, but the logistics of doing that after purchase may be more complex than it is worth.
If the current owner could get the vehicle through nct (which will probably cover all the mentioned mot aspects) , for a split of the vrt refund (assuming 600-1000€) then it may work out in your favour as you would be mot ok on return and have some cash back.

Dave

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I imagine if the car was inspected it would be inspected commensurate with its age and headlight height from 2001
It would be unfair to declare them too low (as per 2018) when it could be an MG Midget say with similar issues.

I’ll get pictures of the VIN and stamped Chassis numbers and awaiting the forms from DVLA

As the car isn’t currently tested, or road worthy claiming back any tax wouldn’t really be feasible or achievable.

It was good reading the importing the Mustang blog.

What do we think regarding importing the Fisher then? Relatively straightforward or the chance of being made to go through a full IVA ? (£500 + £100 per retest)

It should be straightforward, with the caveat that you will need a valid mot to complete the registration (as the registation includes taxing for the road)

Dave

I’m going to collect the car this weekend. Let the fun begin. I’ll keep you posted

Good luck. Hope you enjoy it.