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VIN number stamping
Dave Bailey - 13/2/12 at 07:23 PM

Hi all,
I have stamped the manufacturers plate and riveted this to the scuttle.. I now have to stamp the chassis but I am nervous about deforming the box section...

Anyone done this and any experiences to share?

thanks
Dave Bailey

deezee - 13/2/12 at 07:39 PM

Yup, I stamped my VIN and bent the box section after a few letters (2mm box section). As you would expect the rest of the stamps didn't mark the chassis rail properly as they didn't make suitable contact. I then stamped a piece of 3mm plate (did a few actually and picked the best) and tig welded it over the mess I made. Looks lovely. Followed it up with some clear lacquer. IVA man had no problems with it.

AdrianH - 13/2/12 at 07:54 PM

Depends on how much of a rush you are in. I could possibly do you

Machined Dummy Vin no.
Machined Dummy Vin no.

or on flat 255 mm plate.

Adrian

Dave Bailey - 13/2/12 at 08:14 PM

Adrian,
That looks superb!...

My plan now is to get a plate stamped and drill 4 holes in it then weld through the holes to have a welded chassis plate...

Can you mail me a price and how long you would need please?

thanks
Dave B....

AdrianH - 13/2/12 at 08:26 PM

U2U sent, sorry forgot to say give me about 10 days as working weekends.

Adrian

Coopz - 13/2/12 at 08:27 PM

I failed My IVA on a stamped plate welded to the chassis. I know people have passed with this and I did argue with the examiner about it but his interpretation of it was it could be removed which is nonsense! Just a heads up as a stupid thing to fail expecially seeing as its the first thing he tests so was a bit disheartened from the beginning!

I had a go at stamping the box section but found it just denting with no clear stamp. I ended up buying a dremel Engraver and engraved it on to the chassis worked a treat and the examiner was fine with it.

AdrianH - 13/2/12 at 08:39 PM

I passed mine with a plate on the drivers side chassis rail.

I did weld all around, though. For some builders I did the box section so it could be added to the build in a convenient place such as Engine bay brace or around the steering, or even as a second piece anywhere convenient.

It is difficult to stamp box section without doing it off the chassis and having another piece down the middle. The mill cuts the numbers and letters in the metal down to around 1mm.

The offer is there if needed, but like every thing else, you makes your own decision.

Adrian

Dave Bailey - 13/2/12 at 08:49 PM

Adrian,
I will call the IVA place I plan to use......

Dave B....

Chippy - 13/2/12 at 11:23 PM

Mine was/is stamped beneath the seat on the cross rail which the seat is bolted through, never got asked to take the seat out. Cheers Ray

alfas - 12/1/13 at 10:12 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Coopz
I failed My IVA on a stamped plate welded to the chassis. I know people have passed with this and I did argue with the examiner about it but his interpretation of it was it could be removed which is nonsense! Just a heads up as a stupid thing to fail expecially seeing as its the first thing he tests so was a bit disheartened from the beginning!

I had a go at stamping the box section but found it just denting with no clear stamp. I ended up buying a dremel Engraver and engraved it on to the chassis worked a treat and the examiner was fine with it.


even it sounds stupid, Mr. IVA is right. according to actual (international / european) laws the VIN should be stamped directly into the chassis.
most factory built cars i´ve seen in the past 1.5years had the VIN always stamped directly into the chassis or a welded plate on a highly visible area inide the enginebay and (important for Mr. IVA) additionally directly somewhere on the right side into the chassis .

this said, a lot of kits have passed IVA with a welded plate, even the IVA manual is rather clear in that matter:

7. The VIN must be marked on the chassis, frame or other similar structure on the right hand side of the vehicle as viewed from the rear, (see notes 7 & 8)
8.
The VIN must be placed in a clearly visible and accessible position by a method such as hammering or stamping so that it can not be obliterated or deteriorate.


so a welded plate is not part of the "structure", chassis or frame...it is something "additional" "removeable" "changeable"


the word "structure" is again repeated when it comes to the manufacturer plate:

4.
All plate(s) must be indelibly marked with the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) which matches the number marked into the vehicle structure

[Edited on 12/1/13 by alfas]

adithorp - 12/1/13 at 11:05 AM

quote:
Originally posted by alfas
so a welded plate is not part of the "structure", chassis or frame...it is something "additional" "removeable" "changeable"


the word "structure" is again repeated when it comes to the manufacturer plate:

[Edited on 12/1/13 by alfas]


As welding is seen for IVA purposes as "perminent", then once welded it is part of the chassis. I asked VOSA before doing mine (for SVA) and they confirmed this. Nothing is truly perminent; The idea that a welded on plate could be removed is the same as saying a stamped chassis tube could be replaced.

There's a difference between something being "part of the structure" and "being structural" which is how you're interpreting the regulations. Getting the interpretation wrong is easy enough when English is your first language (as shown by variations even by IVA inspectors) so we'll let you off Alfas (you're German I believe?)

sdh2903 - 12/1/13 at 11:22 AM

I engraved mine, tester had no issues with it, on the plus side you don't damage any paint/powdercoat by doing any welding. Think the engraver was a tenner came with a stencil too.

loggyboy - 12/1/13 at 11:43 AM

Engraving is the easy answer if you dont want to stamp or weld. Also helpfull if the chassis coated already.

Mine came pre engraved by Raw, but ive had to since amend mine as they stupidly put the I in it, its now a 1.

alfas - 12/1/13 at 12:09 PM

yes german.

imo, IVA has been established (or lets say changed form SVA to IVA) to quieten down a bit the european comunities claims in terms of harmonizing the european single market.

since around 20years(or maybe even more) VIN numbers on a welded plate are "officially", in terms of the leagl aspect, not acceptable anymore in most countries and i think thats the reason why the IVA manual is stating the word "structure"...which should be clear for everbody...but as we see in practice still leaves some room for interpretion.

this said, our MOT (TÜV) testers often let a car pass with a welded plate.

even the gemran TÜV says on his english homepage: "To be embossed at the frame front right"

here the EU-Law:


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/Notice.do?mode=dbl&lng1=de,en&lang=&lng2=bg,cs,da,de,el,en,es,et,fi,fr,hu,it,lt,lv,mt,nl,pl,pt,ro,sk,sl,sv,&v al=555395:cs


2. Composition of the VIN
2.1. The VIN shall consist of three sections:
(a) the world manufacturer identifier (WMI);
(b) the vehicle descriptor section (VDS);
(c) the vehicle indicator section (VIS).
2.2. The WMI shall consist of a code assigned to the vehicle manufacturer to enable him to be identified.
2.2.1. The code shall comprise three alphanumeric characters, capital roman letters or Arabic numerals, which shall be assigned by the competent authority in the country where the manufacturer has his principal place of business.
2.2.2. The competent authority shall act in agreement with the international organisation referred to in Standard ISO 3780: 2009 on "Road vehicles — World manufacturer identifier (WMI) code".
2.2.3. Where the manufacturer’s global production is less than 500 vehicles per annum, the third character shall always be "9". In order to identify such manufacturers, the competent authority referred to in point 2.2.1 shall assign the third, the fourth and the fifth character of the VIS.
2.3. The VDS shall consist of six alphanumeric characters, capital roman letters or Arabic numerals, which shall serve to indicate the general characteristics of the vehicle. Where the manufacturer does not use one or more of the six characters, the unused spaces shall be filled in with alphanumeric characters at the manufacturer’s discretion in order that the total number of characters required shall be 6.
2.4. The VIS shall consist of eight alphanumeric characters, capital Roman letters or Arabic numerals, of which the last four shall consist of digits only.
It shall provide, in conjunction with the WMI and the VDS, clear identification of a particular vehicle. Any unused space shall be filled in with the digit "0" in order that the total number of characters required shall be 8.
2.5. The height of the characters of the VIN stamped on the chassis shall be no less than 7 mm.
2.6. There shall be no space between the characters.
2.7. The use of the letters "I", "O" or "Q" shall not be permitted.
2.8. The beginning and the end of the VIN shall be limited by one symbol at the choice of the manufacturer neither symbol should be a Roman capital letter nor an Arabic numeral.
2.8.1. This provision may be waived when the VIN is marked on a single line.
2.8.2. When the VIN is marked on two lines, this provision shall apply to each line.

REQUIREMENTS FOR LOCATION ON VEHICLE
PART A
Manufacturer’s statutory plate
1. The manufacturer’s statutory plate shall be firmly attached in a conspicuous and readily accessible position.
2. The location shall be chosen so that the part on which it is affixed is not subject to replacement in use.
PART B
Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)
1. The VIN shall be marked on a single line.
1.1. When, for technical reasons such as the lack of space, the VIN cannot be marked on a single line, the national authority may, at the request of the manufacturer, allow the VIN to be marked on two lines.
In such case, the sections defined in point 2.1 of Part B of Annex I may not be interrupted.
2. The VIN shall be marked by stamping or mechanical hammering on the chassis, frame or other similar structure.
3. Techniques that are proven to offer the same level of inalterability against tampering or forgery as mechanical hammering may be used in place of that technique.
4. The VIN shall be in a clearly visible and accessible position. The location shall be chosen in a way that it cannot be obliterated or deteriorate.
5. The VIN shall be located on the right-hand side of the vehicle.


[Edited on 12/1/13 by alfas]

[Edited on 12/1/13 by alfas]