simes43
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 10:19 AM |
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The 10% Rule
Given the alarming number of totally avoidable accidents happening between front running cars and back markers in 2007, I am going to ask for the 10%
qualifying rule to be observed by the 750mc.
Anyone up for a debate?
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nib1980
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 10:22 AM |
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thats fine if your fast enough.
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nick205
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 10:31 AM |
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I have no experience of racing myself, but maybe some driver training be a more effective approach rather than shutting people out. Most people have
to start somewhere and todays back markers might be tomorrows front runners.
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GazzaP
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 10:39 AM |
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This does not seem fair the best option is the marshalls to use the flags better!
www.gmpmotorsport.co.uk
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D Beddows
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 10:44 AM |
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It's a bit miserable of you that! Locost racing is club level motorsport ie a hobby AND it was designed for novice racers some of whom might not
be that quick in their first few races. How are they going to get the race (and driving) experience if they're stopped from racing and why are
they going to bother in the first place if they have to spend a couple of hundred quid to turn up on the day and not get a race.
Anyway isn't as much damaged caused to front runners nowadays from other front runners slipstreaming each other and not getting it quite right?
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procomp
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 10:56 AM |
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Hi what alarming number of accidents between front and back runners.
Better driving standards YES.
10% rule will only make it harder for complete newcomers / novices to get the experience they need to learn to become better.
It should be remembered that the locost formula is aimed at new people to motorsport and helping them to work their way up the motorsport ladder.
If front running drivers are finding problems with back runners then there's plenty of ways to sort this out by talking to officials ect.
Cheers Matt
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simes43
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 11:05 AM |
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Good stuff.
I am not sure that money and being fair stacks up here.
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worX
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 11:07 AM |
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I think I understand the "10% Rule" from others replies, but would you care to explain it in detail?
Steve
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stuart_g
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 11:13 AM |
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Doesn't seem fair to me. A few years back I used to mechanic for a mate of mine in the supersport 600 class that ran with the British superbike
races. They had a similar thing to keep the number of qualifiers down for the race and some of the time he didn't even qualify that made the
weekend a total waste of time and his hard earnt money in entrance fees, tyres e.t.c.
Not the same I know but same principle.
Think about it the other way as if you were just starting out as a novice.
[Edited on 9/1/08 by stuart_g]
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D Beddows
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 11:21 AM |
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quote:
I am not sure that money and being fair stacks up here.
You're right it doesn't  not if it's your first race and you've paid your race entry, driven maybe a couple of hundred miles
and spent the night in a hotel ..... then because you weren't quite quick enough in practice you're not allowed to race.... quite a lot of
money and not at all fair!
Anyway, once you've introduced this rule to get rid of all those pesky backmarkers are you going to be happy if you have a problem with your car
in qualifying and don't make the 10% cut off? or will there be a different rule for 'regular front runners with engine trouble in
practice'?
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simes43
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 11:26 AM |
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OK. If the rule was observed, what would happen? Within 10% of the third fastest time in constant conditions.
Very few over the complete 2007 season would have been disallowed to race. A 20% rule would have caught some......
A very low bar has been introduced to give any newcomer a minimum to aim for.
A level of safety for everyone has been introduced.
Trying to unpick accidents via the CofC office is mitigated.
Waiting for a blue flag that never appears and is read incorrectly. In a 13 minute race, lapping traffic should not really happen.
Most of the accidents have been caused by drivers racing around in a bubble and not paying attention to whats going on behind them.
In regards to costs, Samirs accident damage at Combe was far higher than the entrance fee!
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Fozzie
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 11:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi what alarming number of accidents between front and back runners.
Better driving standards YES.
10% rule will only make it harder for complete newcomers / novices to get the experience they need to learn to become better.
It should be remembered that the locost formula is aimed at new people to motorsport and helping them to work their way up the motorsport ladder.
If front running drivers are finding problems with back runners then there's plenty of ways to sort this out by talking to officials ect.
Cheers Matt
Well said that man!
It IS an 'entry' level to motorsport series, so, perhaps it may be time for the 'front runners' to move up a level?
I built my car back in 2004 as per Locost 750 regs at that time...fully intending to race it in the series (and 'road' it)......
I went along to a few of your meetings......it wasn't the newbies that put me off (black cross on yellow background) ..... it was the so called
front runners......I am not saying for one minute that it was your good self.....but the driving standards of the odd few 'up front' left
a lot to be desired.......
Unfortunately every time I went.....there was some resulting carnage on the track which largely could have been avoided......seems to be quite a lot
of 'red-mist' up at the front..... all IMHO of course! 
Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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D Beddows
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 11:33 AM |
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If 'very few people over the 2007 season' would have been outside the 10% what would it change introducing the rule?
I don't quite get what you're objecting to tbh - is it people driving slowly or people driving like muppets? if the latter then, as Fozzie
has just said, there has never been a muppet shortage at the front of the field either!!
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stuart_g
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 11:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by simes43
OK. If the rule was observed, what would happen? Within 10% of the third fastest time in constant conditions.
Very few over the complete 2007 season would have been disallowed to race. A 20% rule would have caught some......
Then the point of introducing the 10% rule is........?
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Fozzie
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 11:49 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by simes43
OK. If the rule was observed, what would happen? Within 10% of the third fastest time in constant conditions.
Very few over the complete 2007 season would have been disallowed to race. A 20% rule would have caught some......
A very low bar has been introduced to give any newcomer a minimum to aim for.
A level of safety for everyone has been introduced.
Trying to unpick accidents via the CofC office is mitigated.
Waiting for a blue flag that never appears and is read incorrectly. In a 13 minute race, lapping traffic should not really happen.
Most of the accidents have been caused by drivers racing around in a bubble and not paying attention to whats going on behind them.
In regards to costs, Samirs accident damage at Combe was far higher than the entrance fee!
Welcome to motorsport!..........
Have you followed / competed in any other series?
As for 'Lapping shouldn't really happen'......I am flabbergasted!........
So...you are saying, that no one should never spin?... go off the track?.... stall? ........get restarted.......all of that takes how long? ..... over
what length track?..and yet you say... 'over taking shouldn't really happen?......
Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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simes43
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 12:08 PM |
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Description
The accident above was caused by a 10% er swerving in front of the pack on the 4th lap of a race at Combe while being lapped. No spin, just a complete
lack of competence.
A very similar accident to the one at Snetterton involving Adam White.
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onzarob
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 12:12 PM |
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Being new here,Do I get the feeling that what should/is a Budget Motorsport is being dominated by people who have a very large budget?
This then end up in the some of the so called Front runners thinking they have a greater right to be competing.
I suppose the answer is a junior and advanced split. Ie first 2 seasons your Junior and then your advanced....or is this already the case ?
(be nice I'm trying to understand  )
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Fozzie
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 12:15 PM |
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Yes I remember that! Samir was indeed lucky....
But...that IS motorsport.......it also happens in F1 and every other series of motorsport.......one blip of concentration...and..... 
No matter how good you are/think you are..it IS a dangerous pastime.
Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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stuart_g
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 12:19 PM |
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So you plan to stop the novice incompetent crash causing people from entering races by stopping them qualifying....hmmm
How lucky you are being born with a racing instinct and being so fast.
How many accidents are caused by "the front runners" not wanting to give up their position on the last corner of the last lap. How
incompetent of them.
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simes43
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 12:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by onzarob
Being new here,Do I get the feeling that what should/is a Budget Motorsport is being dominated by people who have a very large budget?
This then end up in the some of the so called Front runners thinking they have a greater right to be competing.
I suppose the answer is a junior and advanced split. Ie first 2 seasons your Junior and then your advanced....or is this already the case ?
(be nice I'm trying to understand )
Nope, nothing to do with budgets/front runners,the accident in the photo happened in the middle of the pack caused by a driver running around so
slowly that they got lapped early in a race and then caused an accident by swerving from one side of the circuit to the other while driving in
splendid isolation.
The reason for introducing the debate is for safety reasons only
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Fozzie
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 12:30 PM |
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When some of the accidents that I have witnessed in the Locost 750 have happened, there does appear to be a lack of knowledge on damage limitation
manouvres.... by most, not just newbies!
Hence wouldn't it be more beneficial for the 750mc to organize some track days where driver tuition was available? Especially pre season and for
newbies to the sport...ie First Season.....and everyone to be encouraged to 'brush up their skills' ?
IMHO of course
Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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onzarob
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 12:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by simes43
Nope, nothing to do with budgets/front runners,the accident in the photo happened in the middle of the pack caused by a driver running around so
slowly that they got lapped early in a race and then caused an accident by swerving from one side of the circuit to the other while driving in
splendid isolation.
Well that does sound like Bad driving, Was this driver consistently slow throughout the series or was he having a bad car day, but decided to make the
most of the track time
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BenB
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 12:36 PM |
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It's simple
Do qualifying as normal.
Give the leaders weight penalties to slow them down a bit.... Like success ballast but qualifting ballast!!
IE
Pole position + 2nd = 30kg
3rd + 4th = 25kg
5th + 6th = 20kg
etc etc
That would create more overtaking and less lapping...
Obviously 30kg might not be the right amount to start with but hopefully you'll get my drift....
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simes43
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 12:59 PM |
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Now we are getting there Fozzie!
Everyone can improve their game and standards. Front to back. Perhaps we can tempt Fozzie into a race car............so he can be the first driver in
history not to moan about backmarkers!
I will also be proposing at the 750 "meet" a buddy system for novices to be mated with top ten drivers to help them with their approach to
a meeting, car set up, driving etc.
The 10% rule is instigated at the CofC's discretion, its in the blue book. It is applied after qualifying, not before and is based on the safety
for all competitors.
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Fozzie
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| posted on 9/1/08 at 01:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by simes43
Now we are getting there Fozzie!
Everyone can improve their game and standards. Front to back. Perhaps we can tempt Fozzie into a race car............so he can be the first driver in
history not to moan about backmarkers!
I will also be proposing at the 750 "meet" a buddy system for novices to be mated with top ten drivers to help them with their approach to
a meeting, car set up, driving etc.
The 10% rule is instigated at the CofC's discretion, its in the blue book. It is applied after qualifying, not before and is based on the safety
for all competitors.
Trouble with that one is Fozzie (me) isn't a 'he' ........I, is a 'she'....
and that would mean taking me 40's out, putting that 'regs' carb back on...and changine me half a bonnet!
And.....I would have to watch you lot ...again....for a few races first......and hope for a vast all round improvement from the 'top' few
drivers at the very least!
I still think for a 'entry' series, using the 10% is very much out of order........just get your race committee to encourage the 750mc to
arrange accessible and affordable driver/track/skills training days for ALL...
Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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