Aloupol
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 11:28 PM |
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Fist attempt
The most challenging for me: the body shape design. Here is my first try, ther's a lot of proportion problems and it's draft, still with
sharp edges but it gets me confident, I think I will do it...
 
Rescued attachment Carrosserie 041215 2.JPG
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Aloupol
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 11:30 PM |
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Rear end.. As often in a mid it's the ugly angle...
 
Rescued attachment Carrosserie 041215 1.JPG
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kb58
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| posted on 15/12/04 at 11:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Aloupol
... As often in a mid it's the ugly angle...
Not always. Check out the back end of the Zonda, it's a very impressive car.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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sgraber
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 12:56 AM |
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Designing the bodywork is IMHO, "THE" most difficult part of the build. The problem is that we all know what looks good, but most of us
don't know "HOW" to make a shape that actually looks good. Wierd.
In any case, I think it's a good start. It needs some work to get the proportions of the wheel arches to the rest of the car and also the front
hood is maybe a little funky. All-in-all a good start though.
Steve G
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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James
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 08:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
Designing the bodywork is IMHO, "THE" most difficult part of the build. The problem is that we all know what looks good, but most of us
don't know "HOW"
What, harder than the absoloute mission of actually making the bloody stuff? 
That's good news actually as I know *how* I want any midi I did to look- it's making the damn body I'm scared of! 
James
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Cita
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 08:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by James
quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
Designing the bodywork is IMHO, "THE" most difficult part of the build. The problem is that we all know what looks good, but most of us
don't know "HOW"
I should replace the "HOW" by "WHY"
Once you know why the how becomes easy
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Mr G
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 10:51 AM |
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I thought this thread was going to be X rated.....
Cheers
G
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CooperLight
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 01:05 PM |
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So is this the best way to do it ?
Shape the body first and adjust your chassi to the shape of the body, or wouldn't it better to do it the other way around ?
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Aloupol
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 01:46 PM |
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I don't know... At the stage I am I need to see if I "can" make an good looking body by myself. I've got the position of main
elements and it's the start...
The good way should be designing the body in clay and digitizing it, but for the next months I don't have a garage to make soiling jobs, so
it's on the comp, not the best way I know.
Thanks for comments anyway.
[Edited on 16/12/04 by Aloupol]
 
Rescued attachment Chassis.JPG
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Cita
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 02:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr G
I thought this thread was going to be X rated.....
Cheers
Aloupol you better change that "Fist attempt" to First attempt otherwise the perverts onhere( and there are many) might get strange
idea's about you
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sgraber
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 03:28 PM |
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Clarification....
You envision a shape in your brain right? You try to convert your thoughts into an actual physical object. We all know what looks good, making
something that LOOKS good is much harder than you think.
The process of cutting wood, styrofoam and applying filler is difficult - sure! But it's just time consuming and tedious.
But you can spend a lot of time and tedium making something that looks hideous (but perfectly finished) and it is just the same as the effort to make
something beautiful (but perfectly finished).
Just like a beautiful woman. there are some shapes more pleasing than others. But do you know WHY you are more attracted to one shape of woman over
another?
But this entire conversation is off topic.
I don't want to know where the FIST is going to be !!!!  (I've seen the pictures... In fact Alez posted a link to a most horrific photo
a few months back that still gives me nightmares. 
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 05:28 PM |
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Looks quite good.
Although the windscreen looks too wide and too long, but I guess you are limited of the form of the donor piece.
In the late sixties and early seventies the Italian did a lot of study of proportions of the body in mid engined cars.
Bertone, Pininfarina and Guigario. You can do inspiration there
good luck!
Richard
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Aloupol
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 09:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Cita
quote:
Originally posted by Mr G
I thought this thread was going to be X rated.....
Cheers
Aloupol you better change that "Fist attempt" to First attempt otherwise the perverts onhere( and there are many) might get strange
idea's about you
Didn't realize, sry
I was wondering what they say about X ratings and so, now that I checked what is meant by "fist" I'm folded of laughing... And a bit
confused.
I don't change anything in the topic title, too late...
Remember that in my first thread (or tread???) I was appologizing for my poor english, now you all know why...
The screen will be cut to the desired shape with water jet routing by a friend, it's too large in the pic just because it's ...fiRst
attempt.
[Edited on 16/12/04 by Aloupol]
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Cita
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| posted on 16/12/04 at 11:38 PM |
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Wadders
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 01:02 AM |
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Try this for inspiration
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=102&i=7756
yes i know its not mid engined, but my point is the shape. This car could not have been conceived from a computer, its too organic, more of a
sculpture, and definately a product of someones imagination, I wonder how many changes were made before the final shape was agreed.
Good luck with the design, you have a good start point.
Al.
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Alan B
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 01:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
Try this for inspiration
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=102&i=7756
yes i know its not mid engined, but my point is the shape. This car could not have been conceived from a computer, its too organic, more of a
sculpture, and definately a product of someones imagination, I wonder how many changes were made before the final shape was agreed.
Good luck with the design, you have a good start point.
Al.
Ah, yes but the trouble is that looks like an ugly POS....IMO of course...
I know opinions are divided on this one....and yes I do take your point about the organic/computer thing.
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andkilde
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 02:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
Try this for inspiration
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=102&i=7756
Ah, yes but the trouble is that looks like an ugly POS....IMO of course...
I know opinions are divided on this one....and yes I do take your point about the organic/computer thing.
Oh dear, I've always liked TVRs -- it looks like they locked the poor designer in a mouldy room for a year with a box of crayons and a copy of
The Fast And The Furious.
It "might" look nice with all the gratuitous louvres filled in and a splitter that didn't look like a pending bowel movement.
Back to Aloupol's car though -- I think the Organic vs Computer Drawn debate is a bit of a red herring. The computer is a fantastic tool for
arranging all the mathematical relationships into a coherent shape. The organics will come more to the fore when you get to Steve's point in
development and you're actually putting your hands into the shape.
Aloupol, brilliant start, I quite like the proportions.
I'd start filling in a few details, trimlines, head, tail, and marker lamps before deciding to make any major changes to the basic shape.
I know I'll sound a bit of a luddite but you could probably work through a bunch of variations very quickly by printing out a few copies of the
"naked" car and attacking it with a pencil.
Cheers, Ted
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CooperLight
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 02:39 PM |
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The Sagaris, you follow the shape of the car with your eyes, looks great, and the rear ... Then you see the exhaust part - WHAT ?
What happend down there, CAD error ?
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Cita
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 03:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
Clarification....
Just like a beautiful woman. there are some shapes more pleasing than others. But do you know WHY you are more attracted to one shape of woman over
another?
Yes i do Steve
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kb58
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 03:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by CooperLight
The Sagaris, you follow the shape of the car with your eyes, looks great, and the rear ... Then you see the exhaust part - WHAT ?
What happend down there, CAD error ?
Reminds me of seeing a cute little kid... with a full diaper...
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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tadltd
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 06:10 PM |
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Proportions are the biggest influencing factor in achieving a cars shape. You've got to get them right from every angle for the shape to look
cohesive.
We did the LMP's shape on paper first, taking influences from everywhere and anywhere. We didn't restrict ourselves to looking purely at
cars, but we looked at architecture, furniture, any aspect of design to see what looked good and then try to understand why it looked good.
Once you have a shape you're happy with you then need to apply engineering principles to it and question every aspect of it - is the chassis
feasible? can the body be moulded to that shape? can I source this part or do I need to have it made as a one-off?
All of the 'one-off' builders on here, I'm sure, have done this and it's an essential element of designing the car.
Unfotunately it usually gives the biggest headaches because you start putting compromises into the design and move further away from your
'pure' vision.
When you finally do find a shape you like ( and think everyone else will) you will be surprised and disappointed when the first guy comes along and
states that he doesn't like it. But everyone has opinions and this is the risk you run if you offer it up for comment. The LMP had (and has) its
detractors, but it never stopped us pushing ahead. One man's treasure is another's rubbish...
Anyway - I've rabbited on for long enough! Very best of luck with your project.
And for what it's worth - I also think you have a good start to your body shape I would also suggest you take a look at the Farboud car
(search Google) for something in a similar vein. 
Best Regards,
Steve.
www.turnerautosport.com
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sgraber
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 06:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tadltd
Proportions are the biggest influencing factor in achieving a cars shape. You've got to get them right from every angle for the shape to look
cohesive.
We did the LMP's shape on paper first, taking influences from everywhere and anywhere. We didn't restrict ourselves to looking purely at
cars, but we looked at architecture, furniture, any aspect of design to see what looked good and then try to understand why it looked good.
Once you have a shape you're happy with you then need to apply engineering principles to it and question every aspect of it - is the chassis
feasible? can the body be moulded to that shape? can I source this part or do I need to have it made as a one-off?
All of the 'one-off' builders on here, I'm sure, have done this and it's an essential element of designing the car.
Unfotunately it usually gives the biggest headaches because you start putting compromises into the design and move further away from your
'pure' vision.
When you finally do find a shape you like ( and think everyone else will) you will be surprised and disappointed when the first guy comes along and
states that he doesn't like it. But everyone has opinions and this is the risk you run if you offer it up for comment. The LMP had (and has) its
detractors, but it never stopped us pushing ahead. One man's treasure is another's rubbish...
Anyway - I've rabbited on for long enough! Very best of luck with your project.
And for what it's worth - I also think you have a good start to your body shape I would also suggest you take a look at the Farboud car
(search Google) for something in a similar vein.
Yeah! What he said... FWIW the Farboud is a beautifully proportioned car. I have a magazine with a lot of artsy photos of it from many
angles and I haven't seen one I don't like. Exceptional.
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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tadltd
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 06:28 PM |
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Alupoul - turn on the 'perspective' in Catia when you're analysing the shape - it gives a much more realistic feel and highlights
areas that look good (and vice versa!).
Also forgot to say that - if you're designing this car for road use, MAKE SURE you have a copy of the reg's to hand. Many a beautiful
shape has been destroyed by the legal minimum height requirement for a headlamp!!
Steve - the only bit I don't like about the Farboud is the side intake shape. And maybe the shape around the headlamp area. Otherwise I agree,
it's a great looking car.
Best Regards,
Steve.
www.turnerautosport.com
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kb58
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 09:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tadltd
...the only bit I don't like about the Farboud is the side intake shape...
I agree, it looks... backwards somehow. But then again they're done and on the road and I'm not... and they want to make and sell more
then one of them...
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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Aloupol
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| posted on 17/12/04 at 11:48 PM |
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Thanks a lot for advises.
I touched a bit the front bonnet which was too much curved, I still have to reshape the roof to a more "round" outline (without an angle
between the top of the screen and the hood, just like most modern street cars) but the more I look at it the more I like it. It's an issue, my
eye becomes acustomished with the curves and doesn't see the problems anymore.
Anyway I have to take these surfaces as "master geometry" to draw the good surfaces for each body part: front bonnet with a spoiler on its
top just before the screen to make room for the wipers, doors with the right cut, radius (parabolic cross section filets in fact...) and so on.
This operation will let me more freedom cause at the moment the shape is simplistic, eg the front bumper is made from the same cross section as the
doors... It's a constant profile surface going all around the car!! This I'm quite sure nobody noticed..
I take into acount all your coments and will plot conical views on paper and dress up with a pencil..
Then someone will tell me "it's ugly" or "it's a copy of this one car" but I won't care...
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