benn
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 10:06 AM |
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Books / plans to recommend?
Hi all,
I'm keen to build a mid-engined car at low cost.
So I guess I'm in the right place. 
My question is - can you all recommend some books to buy or plans to base upon? I'm in New Zealand - and have access to a good metalworking
workshop - so am keen to build the chassis from scratch - but would like to work off a plan as far as possible - since I want to get my hands dirty
and spend less time planning on paper.
My ideal car would be ~500kg, two seater, lamborghini-in-miniature profile, bike engined and very basic.
Reasonable?
What books could you recommend - and are there any frames that would be close to the above spec?
Thanks in advance!
Ben
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Graceland
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 10:16 AM |
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the ron champion book is good, there is also a set of drawings avalable on the mcsorely website - 3 versions of the drawings - "book"
"+4" and "+7+4" - not sure on the last 2, but there defo is bigger chassis size drawings avalable
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 10:16 AM |
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Ben, there are plans for a two seater Terrapin chassis (one is shown in the book) and plans are available directly from Allan Staniforth. It's
common now to use a bike engine in the rear to replace FWD car motor - and you can fit whatever body you want?
Just a thought - Rob
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Graceland
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 10:17 AM |
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not sure that the book chassis is suitable for mid/rear engined tho - however, the engine is in practice, behind the front wheels so in theory is mid
engined?
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timf
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 10:20 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Graceland
however, the engine is in practice, behind the front wheels so in theory is mid engined?
oh no alanb will be happy with you for this post.
 
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Graceland
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 10:22 AM |
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lol - i'm an engineer - my mind is weird - but my sceptic is this
front engined - infront of the driver, above or infront of the front wheels
mid engined - infront of the driver, behind the front wheels
rear engined - behind the driver
makes sence to me lol
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 10:52 AM |
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That made me smile
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 10:57 AM |
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A picture of a two seater Terrapin in action (not that good a quality though)
 
Rescued attachment 2seaterTerrapin.jpg
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Noodle
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 02:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrapin_racing
Ben, there are plans for a two seater Terrapin chassis (one is shown in the book) and plans are available directly from Allan Staniforth. It's
common now to use a bike engine in the rear to replace FWD car motor - and you can fit whatever body you want?
Just a thought - Rob
Assuming that the 'mid' engine's mounted behind driver/ahead of rear axle line etc, what's the
standard/usual/accepted/common/whatever ways of driving the differential in a tranverse installation? Chain?
I appreciate an inline engine's easier and won't suffer from weight distribution problems to the extent of a transverse installation
. I suppose inline engines drive the diff at it's nose directly via a rubber coupling?
Cheers,
Neil.
Your sort make me sick
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timf
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 02:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Graceland
lol - i'm an engineer - my mind is weird - but my sceptic is this
front engined - infront of the driver, above or infront of the front wheels
mid engined - infront of the driver, behind the front wheels
rear engined - behind the driver
makes sence to me lol
when alan comes in all will be revealed
but to give some background not long ago on the n/a yahoo list this kicked of and things got a bit heated
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GO
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 02:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Graceland
lol - i'm an engineer - my mind is weird - but my sceptic is this
front engined - infront of the driver, above or infront of the front wheels
mid engined - infront of the driver, behind the front wheels
rear engined - behind the driver
makes sence to me lol
So what's that make a 911 with the engine behind the rear wheels?
Arse engined??
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 03:16 PM |
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Bike engine - drive
Costly way is to contact Quaife and buy a tranfer box - megabucks
or
most races/hillclimbers adapt a mini/maxi/allegro/montego diff unit to chain drive. There's a company that machines the chainwheels off a bike to
bolt onto the diff unit. Two bearing support blocks are then used to hold the diff.
Just looking for a piccy for you....
 
Rescued attachment chain1.jpg
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 03:16 PM |
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and another.........
 
Rescued attachment chain2.jpg
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 03:24 PM |
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The expensive route..............
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kb58
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 04:46 PM |
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I always wondered how the differential gears stay lubricated when converting a car diff to a BEC diff.
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kb58
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 06:26 PM |
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Referring to the above photo of the suspension, I'm glad to see someone else has the lower shock mount directly on the upright. I designed mine
that way, but have worried about it ever since... because I'd never seen it done elsewhere.
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Noodle
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 08:51 PM |
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Thanks for the pictures Rob. I'd still like to see some close-ups of the BL box onto a bike motor. Sounds interesting.
I see that MK's forthcoming 'Banshee' adopts the inline approach.
Has anyone seen road vehicles using the transverse method?
Cheers,
Neil.
Your sort make me sick
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GTAddict
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 09:54 PM |
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Triplex chain and turbo-nutter-madness.
Old Saab 99/900 with the Triumph derved 'slant 4' engine used a triplex chain.
Basically, you have a 2.0L straight four, mounted longitudinally, flywheel and clutch off the crank nose at the front, then the chain
transferring drive to the gearbox input shaft which runs almost directly under the crank (coax with the output shaft) in a closed housing which also
forms the sump of the engine. Underneath the rearmost piston, the final drive rotates the drive through 90deg and Robert's your mother's
brother.
As engines go, the crankshaft is fairly high, but the 45 degree cant of the engine means the overall package is not overtall, there is no rear
overhang from the gearbox at all, and the front of the engine with it's triplex chain is actually fairly compact.
Add to this that the end of line 900 Turbo 16 Aero/Carlsson engines were producing 185bhp and buckets of torque as standard, and companies like Abbott
still make 900s go ridiculously quickly (250hp without even flowing your cyl head or changing cams - more with serious work) and actually,
you're looking at a monstrously fun powerplant for a lightweight middie.
M.
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Graceland
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| posted on 18/2/04 at 10:04 PM |
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that looks slightly warm
a while since, before i stripped the sierra, i had the turbo, manifold, exhaust downpipe glowing bright red - not bad for a bespoke conversion, it was
throwing 200 bhp at the fly with torque to match that figure most entertaining looking at it thinking "i wasted that nob in the bmw"
lol.
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Alan B
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| posted on 19/2/04 at 01:15 AM |
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Engine postion definitions..
Traditional terminology
All based on engine position RELATIVE to the driver...
Front engine - engine in front of driver
Rear engine - engine behind driver and rear axle line
Mid engine - engine behind driver but ahead of rear axle line.
Simple definitions..easy to apply...not based on weight distribution or CofG....
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 19/2/04 at 09:43 AM |
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Differential bearing lubrication - Allan Staniforth and myself had a discussion with some students recently about this (we are both design and
presentation judges at FS) - the bottom line is that at the crudest level - greased bearings with a simple alloy guard (to retail 'flug'
lube) the bearings last well - but we are talking about race cars that are run on the day and maintained for the next event.
I'll trawl my data for some more photos as requested.
By the way - I have been pushing Allan to participate in a new book about bike engined racers and thier transmission systems - there is a lack of
information in this area. Should I post an article and let you guy's vote. This may temp Allan into doing something?
Suspension Guru, Alan Staniforth still enjoys his hillclimbing tremendously, despite being a little past his sell-by date (80+)!
[Edited on 19/2/04 by Terrapin_racing]
 
Rescued attachment staniforth01.jpg
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 19/2/04 at 09:57 AM |
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The engine is fitted in the same orientation as it would be in the bike, this allows a chain drive to be used. The chain transfers the drive from the
gearbox to the Z-Cars-modified limited slip differential.
The modifications to the diff include the fitting of four motorbike-derived Magnesium calipers each weighing only 1.5lb. Two of these calipers are
used for the foot brake and two for the hydraulic hand brake.
 
Rescued attachment zcar1.jpg
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 19/2/04 at 09:57 AM |
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another .........
[Edited on 19/2/04 by Terrapin_racing]
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 19/2/04 at 09:59 AM |
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second pic
 
Rescued attachment zcar2.jpg
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Spyderman
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| posted on 19/2/04 at 12:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrapin_racing
By the way - I have been pushing Allan to participate in a new book about bike engined racers and thier transmission systems - there is a lack of
information in this area. Should I post an article and let you guy's vote. This may temp Allan into doing something?
[Edited on 19/2/04 by Terrapin_racing]
Yes please!
Terry;
Spyderman
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