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Fuel Tank Position

m8kwr - 4/6/09 at 01:47 PM

Hi,

Maybe a stupid question, but here goes...

Is there anywhere where you should not put the fuel tank?

The only available space i have, that i can see, is behind the seat, which because i am going to be using a bike engine, the exhaust pipes are going to be very close to it.

Is this an issue, either with safety, iva etc???

If it help, probably will, i am building (well attempting) a single seater, with a bec engine (zzr1100).

Hopefully by the end of the week i will be posting some first draft chassis drawings.

Many thanks

blakep82 - 4/6/09 at 01:49 PM

download the iva manual, details below.

it can't be in the passenger compartment

m8kwr - 4/6/09 at 02:08 PM

Many thanks for the link...

Now i have even more concerns... please see below.

8. Fuel Tanks must not be positioned near a heat source (similar in installation to that of a type approved vehicle), so that a leak could cause a fire hazard.
13. Any fuel filler neck or vent must not allow spilt fuel to be able to fall onto the exhaust system.
14. Fuel tank filling points must not be located in the passenger compartment, luggage compartment or within an engine compartment.

Is it best then, behind the driver seat i have some ali (which i was anyway), position the fuel tank there, then before the engine's exhaust system, have another piece of ali, thus to indicate the separation of the engine bay and the fuel tank.

Any suggestions would be grateful...

Must read the iva....

tegwin - 4/6/09 at 02:29 PM

I assume its a mid engined single seater?

In which case I would put a nice fuel cell up front, just infront of the pedalbox.... Behind the radiator.....

m8kwr - 4/6/09 at 02:57 PM

I did not really want the radiator or fuel tank up the front, due pipes etc having to span the length of the car.

The plan was to have the battery up there...

I suppose i could move the driving position forward, pushing the pedal box over the front wheel axis!!!!

Does anyone know the minimum distance the fuel tank should be away from the exhausts?

gavin174 - 4/6/09 at 03:14 PM

"14. Fuel tank filling points must not be located in the passenger compartment, luggage compartment or within an engine compartment."

i have the tank in the boot and was going to make a grp deck lid that will be fixed permanetly with the filler coming straight out of the top of the tank to the deck lid..

as i will have no luggage compartment will this be ok???
Rescued attachment DSCF1294.jpg

blakep82 - 4/6/09 at 03:22 PM

iva manual is worrying vague about fuel lines and stuff, all is says about tank is:
Fuel Tanks must not be positioned near a heat source (similar in installation to that of a type approved vehicle), so that a leak could cause a fire hazard.

wrap the exhaust in heat insulation wrapping stuff and maybe a sheet of aluminium between tank and exhaust as a heat shield?

gavin, as long as theres no floor to the 'boot area' and no way you can actually carry anything in there its not a luggage campartment. it'll be fine

gavin174 - 4/6/09 at 04:10 PM

thanks for that!!

am i right in thinking you cant have screw cap filler anymore and the tank must be earthed

oldtimer - 4/6/09 at 04:23 PM

There is also this business about no sharp edges/protrusions etc that can pierce the tank. Again quite vague, but I think we have taken it to mean things on your own vehicle - such as bolts holding spare wheel carriers may be an issue in an accident, and therefore can not be behind the tank.

blakep82 - 4/6/09 at 04:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
thanks for that!!

am i right in thinking you cant have screw cap filler anymore and the tank must be earthed

5.
All metal fuel tanks must have an earth path to prevent the build up of static electricity. (this may be a separate bonding or the mounting arrangement where it does not isolate the tank)

15.
A fuel filler cap must positively locate to the filler neck and incorporate an adequate sealing arrangement so that a fuel leak is not possible.

16.
The fuel filler cap must either be tethered to the vehicle or be of a lockable type where the key can only be removed when the cap is locked or an automatically opening and closing, non-removable fuel filler cap

the full manual can be downloaded free at http://www.mevltd.co.uk/downloads.html

matt_claydon - 4/6/09 at 07:15 PM

Best to link directly to the VOSA site for the IVA manual - The one on the MEV site is out of date:

Link

The manual is being updated quite regularly and obviously the VOSA version will always be the most recent.

m8kwr - 5/6/09 at 10:12 AM

I have just spoken to vosa, and they said that i "should" be ok to have the fuel tank behind the driver, and infront of the engine.

As long as i have shown that i knew about the regulation, and show that i have tried to use components to comply with it, and explain my thought process.....

So if i used "aluminum heat shield" on the back of the bulk head (in between the engine exhausts and the fuel tank), would anyone believe this would fail, or would you do anything else to try and comply even further....

carpmart - 5/6/09 at 10:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by m8kwr
I have just spoken to vosa, and they said that i "should" be ok to have the fuel tank behind the driver, and infront of the engine.

As long as i have shown that i knew about the regulation, and show that i have tried to use components to comply with it, and explain my thought process.....

So if i used "aluminum heat shield" on the back of the bulk head (in between the engine exhausts and the fuel tank), would anyone believe this would fail, or would you do anything else to try and comply even further....

What you suggest above complies with the directive you got from VOSA, Common sense makes me believe you will be able to justify your rationale at the IVA test, so I see no issue!

m8kwr - 5/6/09 at 11:09 AM

I did also comment i did not want the fuel tank at the front of the car, in case of a head on BANG, that to me seems more dangerous, and common sense not to put it there.

Hopefully i can crack on with the chassis design now, and show you all what i have put together.... and planning on building

poloace - 2/7/09 at 11:05 PM

my pre SVA car has a tank fitted behind the passenger seat. It was originally up front but space restriction made is volume very small. My tank is in the passenger compartment and If I have a leak on the fule return line I will be covered so I will be designing a new tank. Most mid engine cars have the tank in teh area behind the seats MGF, Elise etc.

Aslong as you have the tank in it own enclosure it will not be in the passenger compartment.

remember most production cars have a plastic tank with a tin heat sheild the the silencers passing only inches away.

I would recomend making some trials if you once up and running to check that your insulation is good enough.

FEZ1025 - 3/7/09 at 01:42 PM

We have the same issues with the Freestyle kits, IVA may see the production cease as currently there is no solution, there is just not space to move the tank from behind the seats with the filler anywhere else other than in front of the radiator.

Just be careful if you still go down the behind seat route, there must be a full 3 sided firewall with no holes not even wire grommet holes etc. Also no leaking fuel can come into the passenger compartment so realistically they cannot share the same floor component. How do you propose to get handbrake & gear linkage through to the centre of the passenger compartment if the tank is there. Currently on the Freestyle the tank straddles the centre section which again will not be allowed in IVA.

Alan...