Hi all,

I'm keen to build a mid-engined car at low cost.

So I guess I'm in the right place.

My question is - can you all recommend some books to buy or plans to base upon? I'm in New Zealand - and have access to a good metalworking workshop - so am keen to build the chassis from scratch - but would like to work off a plan as far as possible - since I want to get my hands dirty and spend less time planning on paper.

My ideal car would be ~500kg, two seater, lamborghini-in-miniature profile, bike engined and very basic.

Reasonable?

What books could you recommend - and are there any frames that would be close to the above spec?

Thanks in advance!
Ben

the ron champion book is good, there is also a set of drawings avalable on the mcsorely website - 3 versions of the drawings - "book" "+4" and "+7+4" - not sure on the last 2, but there defo is bigger chassis size drawings avalable

Ben, there are plans for a two seater Terrapin chassis (one is shown in the book) and plans are available directly from Allan Staniforth. It's common now to use a bike engine in the rear to replace FWD car motor - and you can fit whatever body you want?
Just a thought - Rob

not sure that the book chassis is suitable for mid/rear engined tho - however, the engine is in practice, behind the front wheels so in theory is mid engined?

quote:

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Originally posted by Graceland
however, the engine is in practice, behind the front wheels so in theory is mid engined?

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lol - i'm an engineer - my mind is weird - but my sceptic is this

front engined - infront of the driver, above or infront of the front wheels
mid engined - infront of the driver, behind the front wheels
rear engined - behind the driver


makes sence to me lol

That made me smile

A picture of a two seater Terrapin in action (not that good a quality though)
Rescued attachment 2seaterTerrapin.jpg

quote:

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Originally posted by Terrapin_racing
Ben, there are plans for a two seater Terrapin chassis (one is shown in the book) and plans are available directly from Allan Staniforth. It's common now to use a bike engine in the rear to replace FWD car motor - and you can fit whatever body you want?
Just a thought - Rob

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quote:

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Originally posted by Graceland
lol - i'm an engineer - my mind is weird - but my sceptic is this

front engined - infront of the driver, above or infront of the front wheels
mid engined - infront of the driver, behind the front wheels
rear engined - behind the driver


makes sence to me lol

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quote:

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Originally posted by Graceland
lol - i'm an engineer - my mind is weird - but my sceptic is this

front engined - infront of the driver, above or infront of the front wheels
mid engined - infront of the driver, behind the front wheels
rear engined - behind the driver


makes sence to me lol

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Bike engine - drive

Costly way is to contact Quaife and buy a tranfer box - megabucks

or

most races/hillclimbers adapt a mini/maxi/allegro/montego diff unit to chain drive. There's a company that machines the chainwheels off a bike to bolt onto the diff unit. Two bearing support blocks are then used to hold the diff.
Just looking for a piccy for you....
Rescued attachment chain1.jpg

and another.........
Rescued attachment chain2.jpg

The expensive route..............

I always wondered how the differential gears stay lubricated when converting a car diff to a BEC diff.

Referring to the above photo of the suspension, I'm glad to see someone else has the lower shock mount directly on the upright. I designed mine that way, but have worried about it ever since... because I'd never seen it done elsewhere.

Thanks for the pictures Rob. I'd still like to see some close-ups of the BL box onto a bike motor. Sounds interesting.

I see that MK's forthcoming 'Banshee' adopts the inline approach.

Has anyone seen road vehicles using the transverse method?

Cheers,

Neil.

Old Saab 99/900 with the Triumph derved 'slant 4' engine used a triplex chain.

Basically, you have a 2.0L straight four, mounted longitudinally, flywheel and clutch off the crank nose at the front, then the chain transferring drive to the gearbox input shaft which runs almost directly under the crank (coax with the output shaft) in a closed housing which also forms the sump of the engine. Underneath the rearmost piston, the final drive rotates the drive through 90deg and Robert's your mother's brother.

As engines go, the crankshaft is fairly high, but the 45 degree cant of the engine means the overall package is not overtall, there is no rear overhang from the gearbox at all, and the front of the engine with it's triplex chain is actually fairly compact.



Add to this that the end of line 900 Turbo 16 Aero/Carlsson engines were producing 185bhp and buckets of torque as standard, and companies like Abbott still make 900s go ridiculously quickly (250hp without even flowing your cyl head or changing cams - more with serious work) and actually, you're looking at a monstrously fun powerplant for a lightweight middie.

M.

that looks slightly warm

a while since, before i stripped the sierra, i had the turbo, manifold, exhaust downpipe glowing bright red - not bad for a bespoke conversion, it was throwing 200 bhp at the fly with torque to match that figure most entertaining looking at it thinking "i wasted that nob in the bmw" lol.

Engine postion definitions..

Traditional terminology

All based on engine position RELATIVE to the driver...

Front engine - engine in front of driver
Rear engine - engine behind driver and rear axle line
Mid engine - engine behind driver but ahead of rear axle line.

Simple definitions..easy to apply...not based on weight distribution or CofG....

Differential bearing lubrication - Allan Staniforth and myself had a discussion with some students recently about this (we are both design and presentation judges at FS) - the bottom line is that at the crudest level - greased bearings with a simple alloy guard (to retail 'flug' lube) the bearings last well - but we are talking about race cars that are run on the day and maintained for the next event.
I'll trawl my data for some more photos as requested.

By the way - I have been pushing Allan to participate in a new book about bike engined racers and thier transmission systems - there is a lack of information in this area. Should I post an article and let you guy's vote. This may temp Allan into doing something?


Suspension Guru, Alan Staniforth still enjoys his hillclimbing tremendously, despite being a little past his sell-by date (80+)!

[Edited on 19/2/04 by Terrapin_racing]
Rescued attachment staniforth01.jpg

The engine is fitted in the same orientation as it would be in the bike, this allows a chain drive to be used. The chain transfers the drive from the gearbox to the Z-Cars-modified limited slip differential.

The modifications to the diff include the fitting of four motorbike-derived Magnesium calipers each weighing only 1.5lb. Two of these calipers are used for the foot brake and two for the hydraulic hand brake.
Rescued attachment zcar1.jpg

another .........

[Edited on 19/2/04 by Terrapin_racing]

second pic
Rescued attachment zcar2.jpg

quote:

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Originally posted by Terrapin_racing
By the way - I have been pushing Allan to participate in a new book about bike engined racers and thier transmission systems - there is a lack of information in this area. Should I post an article and let you guy's vote. This may temp Allan into doing something?

[Edited on 19/2/04 by Terrapin_racing]

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Yup, me too.

Allan sent me some pictures of the suspension on his current car and it looks like the green one above. Is this a Megapin? Do you know if plans available for this car?

Whilst a derivative of the Famous Historic Terrapin racecar the Megapin is build by Ian Scott (a very close friend of Allan's). I've attached the details below so that you can contact him.

"Baitings Dam is one of the tightest hillclimbs around. With its succession of 1st gear hairpins it's almost a different discipline altogether from courses like Aintree. The course record is 25 or 26 seconds. I think the record may be held by Ian Scott in his home built, but very professional, motorbike engined Megapin".

Megapin Racing Cars
107 Green Lane
Carlisle
Cumbria
United Kingdom  CA2 7QE

Contact:  Mr Ian Scott
Tel:  01228 541 290
Email:   ianscott@megapin.freeserve.co.uk

I need to puchase a copy of High Speed Low Cost and a set of plans for the Terrapin. What address or e-mail I use?
Regards
Rui

quote:

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Originally posted by benn

I'm keen to build a mid-engined car at low cost... My question is - can you all recommend some books to buy or plans to base upon? ...What books could you recommend

Thanks in advance!
Ben

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quote:

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Originally posted by rusiq
I need to puchase a copy of High Speed Low Cost and a set of plans for the Terrapin. What address or e-mail I use?
Regards
Rui

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