Hey, im interested in building a kit car yet i have all of the questions everyone else probably had about what kit etc to go for and what engine to fit etc.

I will be building the kit with my dad in his garage and im looking for a low cost kit car to build. I dont have hardly any mechanical knowledge apart from experience with a scooter, mini moto and a Peugeot 106, although my experience with that is changing light bulbs and fitting speakers . My father however carry's out most of the things he has to on his own car (Alfa Romeo 155 so he is usually working on it a lot )

The cost of the car is instrumental really, ideally i want the cheapest to build car with the best value performance. I will be using the car for a bit of fun at the weekends and perhaps a track day everynow and again.

I can't remember all of the manufacturer's i have looked at but i can definitely remember the following: Tiger, MacNo1, MNR, MK and Westfield.

I have noticed most of the above offer starter kits etc and various other stages of build but im not sure exactly what other components are required apart from what is offered in these packages.
Obviously some are obvious, for instance Chester Sports Cars offer a kit including ZX9R engine and i presume they will come with all parts required.

As this is my first kit car, i am fairly worried about the mechanical knowledge that both me and my dad posess in relation to building one. I would preferably like an R1 powered car however i do not know how hard this would be to install compared to a car engine and also what parts they involve.

I have look at people's various build diaries and also the build manuals for a few cars and whilst most of this i understand, its more the parts that are required from say, the donor car and what parts aren't included in kits.

I am most inclined to go for the Tiger Avon at the minute as the agent is fairly local to me, about an hours drive away which would be instrumental in collecting the car etc and also if i needed work doing on it that i could not do myself. The price of this car also appeals to me and the book available as well helps. Their service to supply all donor parts i would help as i dont know exactly what i need myself. I would like to install an R1 engine into the car but again, i dont know what parts i would need from an R1, i presume the obvious things such as radiator, airbox, engine, gearbox, clutch. Then what exhaust do i use? What parts do i use from say a Sierra? Which Sierra do i need?

These are all questions i have and ones which i have not been able to find answers to myself after scouring this site and others for a fair few hours.

I would be most grateful if anybody could give me and advice, recommendation or any other input you may have to give to me.

Many Thanks
Chris

I'm guessing your near Chestersportscars. If so Graham is a top bloke...go and have a chat, take a look around/drive and see what you think - till him Oli from Aberdeen sent you!
On a more general note - if I were to do another kit again (which I wouldn't I'd want to do it all myself next time) I'd have a go in as many as you can so you can compare them more easily. But the main thing I would recomend is finding a supplier/manufacturer you like who is not a million miles away. As you will need their help the whole way through the build and you don't want one that you don't get on with or will sell you the kit then forget about you!
As for Tiger, I have mixed feelings. Now my car is finished I love it but it is NOT a mechano set! In fact I think its a bout the worst kit you can buy in this respect. Seemingly obvious things that should fit together with ease will not!
Only other advice I can think of is find some ppl local to you who you can "chew the fat" with and mull ideas over - so fill in that location tab in your profile so we know where you are!
Don't worry about engine choices etc as I've discovered you tend to learn what you have to some how when needed be that car engines, transmissions, bike carbs, ignition, bike engines etc! There's plenty off help on here and all over the internet and you wont be the first person to try it!
Oli.

Ps.
Check out the Tiger forum if you haven't already at: http://www.tigerownersclub.co.uk

Welcome!

Don't just look at local manufacturers, most will deliver for a modest cost and it's worth it to get the right kit.

Most of the manufacturers produce a chassis based roughly on the Ron Champion book, but most are now developing their own improvements/new chassis' too, so worth a proper look around.

R1 an excellent engine choice and I'll second Yorkshire Engines as the best engine source you'll find

Take your time, choose wisely.

Talk to people, visist manufacturers.
Get local people to take you for a spin in their cars if you can.

Just so you can get an idea of what you want or need.

The finish and quality will be comensurate with the budget available.

Its all been done and discussed to death on this forum.

Use the SEARCH facility, its usually burried here somewhere.

Ask plenty of questions... But think about what you are asking and why (and use the search first).
There is lots of knowlege, and people who have done it all before on here.

Finally....

Welcome to the mad house... Best bunch of blokes, and one of the most sensible forums I have come across


PS... If you can build it in the first place, then changing the engine from a car to a bike engine, shouldnt cause too many headaches later. ie you can always do a cheap car engine, ie nothing too sporty, then change to a racebred screamer bike engine as next winters project... Once its on the road, the build is not finished!!! I am doing Home made fuel injection with 8 Motocycle throttle bodies and injectors on my V8... for something to do

I have filled out the profile part now, im located in Blackpool sorry about that.

Chester Sports Cars is the closest manufacturer to me that i have found at the minute.

I dont think when i go around the place that i will be able to get test drives as im only 18 at the minute. Although saying that, its not just me, my dad will be doing this with me (hopefully) so he could always have a go and i'd expect that the manufacturer could take me as a passenger.

What are the advantages of an R1 engine over others? Reliability etc. I have noticed Malc at Yorkshire Engines seems to be a popular choice.

How much do you think i would spend on an engine for a relatively good one? What parts do i need from the R1 exactly?

If i can get a self build kit from Chester Sports Cars for a Tiger Avon for £4250, would i just then need the donor parts and the engine?

How much would i expect to pay for the engine and donor parts?

Many Thanks
Chris

Sorry Wilking J, was posting my post as you were yours..

Thanks for the advice guys, keep it coming.

Chris

Engine will set you back about £1100 - £1500 for an R1, but remember it comes with a sequential gearbox built in, and you'll get all the ancills including full bike loom from Malc too (so you don't need to mess about with wiring - just extend out the lights and neaten things up!)

The R1 was a serious leap forward in bike engines, with a 1 piece casting method that made a very light and compact engine with a lot of power too (fastest production bike at the time of it's lauch I think - certainly in terms of real world riding).

However, just as with everything else, the competition caught up and keeps moving forward, so any later Blade engine, R1, GSXR1000, ZX9R will be just as good!

Also, don't discount the Fazer1000 engine. The same as the R1, but with different carb set up. Slightly less power, more torque and a hell of a lot cheaper because they're not on people's radar yet!

Crikey £1500 for the engine is a loooot. Although i guess if thats all i had to pay for the engine side of things, i.e everything like gearbox etc is included then i suppose its not too bad.

Total cost of car for R1 power is gonna be around £6500 then if i use a starter pack, R1 engine and a donor pack from Tiger. Well thats the least its gonna cost me anyway.

Whats the difference in power between a BEC and a CEC, 0-60 times for an R1 Avon anybody?

Do you think with the mechanical knowledge i have described its possible for me and my dad to build a kit car?

Also are there any stages you would recommend leaving to a professional? Such as maybe fitting the engine or wiring loom?

Cheers guys
Chris

You could find an r1 for as little as £800, but the difference is that Malc guarantees his engines to be in good order - you dont get that on ebay!

I think you can do it no probs, if you get stuck theres plenty of help on here. If you really cant finish it then some manufacturers will take it back and finish/test for you for a fee.

Besides chester sports theres MNR near harrogate and MK and MAC1 near sheffield. Or, buy a locost chassis on ebay (i would suggest you make one but you would need a welder then).

Dont forget theres also part finished projects on ebay, but beware you might take on someone elses bodges...

I'm presuming this "self build" for the Avon your refering to from Chester Sportcars is the bits you would normally get from the Donor car, the steeing, hubs brakes etc?
If so you could save alot of money buying a donor car or getting this bits yourself from the scrapyard.

If your using a bike engine then you don't have to be so picky with the donor car,
A 1.8 Sierra would be fine and much easier to come accross as most people are looking for a 2.0L to use the engine as well.

[Edited on 5/11/06 by MkIndy7]

R1 should be good for 0-60 in 4ish seconds.

That's where you get the cost saving - try finding a car engine and gearbox for £1250 that will capable of that!

I'm building an R1 MK Indy and it comes complete with a cradle for the engine (most can provide this), so you just bolt the cradle on and drop the engine in place - job's a good 'un. My build will be about £8,500, including Wilwood brakes on all four corners and a TRT prop (highly recomend for a BEC)

It's really not that hard though - just take your time, do your research and refer to this forum when necessary - you'll get several good solutions every time, just choose the best for you and crack on!

I'm just planning my build at the mo & have all but discounted a bike engine because of cost & the fact it's very much a road car.
My reckoning is if it weighs sub 600kg (what kind of weight is a basic car engine Locost?) & has 100+ bhp it will feel quick compared to most hot hatches & then you up the power as time & money allow.
The cost with a Zetec or similar will be in sorting the management side is it not?
£1000 for a bike motor seems a lot if you want to keep the cost down, surely a fit crossflow or similar would be a better route.
How do you do a reverse gear for a BEC on the cheap?

quote:

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Originally posted by hillbillyracer
How do you do a reverse gear for a BEC on the cheap?

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Lol Not as daft as it sounds if you're only gonna use it on quiet roads. Dont think it would be much cop in the town. Would it pass the SVA?

Below is a link to the Chester Sports Cars website for the Tiger Avon but i dont understand what the difference is between the comprehensive kit, which does not include donor parts and a self build kit.

CSC Tiger Avon

I presume the self build kit will be all but the engine then, inclusive of donor parts?

Anybody able to clear this up for me?

And regarding performace, 0-60 in 4ish seconds is 10ish seconds faster than my current car .

Cheers
Chris

quote:

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Originally posted by hillbillyracer
Lol Not as daft as it sounds if you're only gonna use it on quiet roads. Dont think it would be much cop in the town. Would it pass the SVA?

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I would'nt like to be without reverse. It's the cost of the reverse box that puts me off most & many say the BECs like to be driven hard, no low down torque I suppose.
I can see the appeal though, easier instalation, more leg room, sequential box & must be a real blast when you're pushing it on. I'll have to be careful cos I'm gonna talk myself into fitting one here

quote:

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Originally posted by superchoward
Below is a link to the Chester Sports Cars website for the Tiger Avon but i dont understand what the difference is between the comprehensive kit, which does not include donor parts and a self build kit.

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Oh right, thanks for clearing that up. I think the self build kit seems the more logical option for a novice. I will enquire about the contents of the package and what is left to fit after that, i.e just the engine and ancillaries etc.

For the SVA can you not have a windscreen and therefore not need a heater and wipers etc etc. Then when you get the certificate fit one afterwards?

I don't think i'd be too fussed about having reverse, not for day to day use anyway as i dont seem to have much of a problem pushing my 106 so a car weighing less than half that can't be too hard.

Thanks for the replies guys, have been very helpful.

Keep em comin!
Chris

Quite a few people get their sva and then fit a windscreen. Passing is supposed to be much easier with out a screen too.
Pushing a bec is really easy. I have to push mine off the drive at home, and it's simple, even on my graveled drive. Most becs tend to weigh around the 500kg mark, but can be up to 100kg either side.

Chris
The best bet is to go to Chester Sports Cars and have a good long chat and see what they have to say. Also as Oli has said log on to http://www.tigerownersclub.co.uk/
There are owners all over the country and most are willing to take out prospective buyers and to have a chat.
There are also regional groups of Tiger owners as well.

[Edited on 6/11/06 by Schrodinger]

Under £3.5k on the road. buy a welder
Rescued attachment dony_-_isonblade_in_pits.jpg

Problem with using the Avon for BEC, is that other than the Kwacker zx9 engine, tiger or chester sports cars don't offer a ready-made engine cradle off-the-shelf. (At least, they didn't when I enquired 12 - 18 months ago.)
So, unless they will make you a bespoke one, be prepared to make one yourself. (There's no guarantee that other manufacturers cradles will fit the Avon chassis without a lot of modification.) Indeed, unless Tiger are now offering a version of the Avon chassis suitable for a bike engine, you will definitely have to modify the chassis yourself (I had to do this and make my own cradle for my 'blade engine) which may seem a little daunting if you're not that confident in your abilities. Also, you will have to get a bespoke exhaust manifold made or modify one from another manufacturer. Its a pity that Tiger don't push the Avon more for BEC use as it is probably the smallest and lowest 'seven' type around.

Andy

Another good website to look out for bike engines is here. We've sourced both our engines from here and both have proved extremely good value for money. Malc at Yorkshire Engines also advertises on here and his engines come highly recommended.

Show season has just about ended for this year but if you can get yourself down to MK Sportscars on any Saturday morning, provided the weather is good, there are usually a few cars turn up whose owners will be more than willing to take you for a passenger ride

Neither MAC#1 nor MNR are too far away, so all three could be easily visited within the day. See what each manufacturer has to offer you and then take your pick.

Phil

pretty far from Blackpool though

Definately worth the travel though, because there's a few manufacturers in the area (also Stuart Taylor on top of Hellfire's list).

Also, the Raw Striker is worth a look - they're based near Hereford, or there's a dealer in Leeds if you plan to visit the aforementioned.

PS - where in Blackpool are you? I used to live near Poulton when I was but a young student at Blackpool Sixth Form