MK9R
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 10:56 AM |
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oil temp on track
i thought i had sorted my overheating out on track, which i think was mainly down to overfilling it, but also took out thermostat and put wetter water
in.
I have also fitted an oil temp gauge (sender in sump) to keep an eye on things.
Did Anglesey and all seemed fine, but did oulton earlier this week (which is defo harder on the car than anglesey), and i oil was hitting over 130
degs, and the water touching 100 degs after a few hard laps. At least this tine if i slowed, the water temp would drop to 90 within half a lap and oil
would drop below 120.
My question is, what sort of temps should i be seeing the oil when using on track?? I really don't like seeing this high. For piece of mind
i'm considering fitting an oil rad, but how hard is this on a zx9r motor??
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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phoenix70
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 11:19 AM |
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I'm no expert in BEC's but I don't think the temps you are seeing are bad. I think if you keep pushing and it keeps going up, then
you may need to look at it.
Have you fitted and oil cooler? if not you may want to consider that.
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 11:22 AM |
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just re read my post, i meant to say i'm considering fitting an oil cooler
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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indykid
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 11:23 AM |
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with avoneer's bitsablade at elvington, the oil temperature got up to about that high but the pressure dropped off massively.
i'd say if you plan a lot of track work, an oil cooler is definitely worth looking at but i don't know the specifics of fitting to your
engine.
tom
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 11:26 AM |
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its a 99% track car
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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indykid
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 11:30 AM |
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i'd say definitely oil cooler then and mauybe look to find ways of keeping under bonnet temperatures down
ducted rad? vented side panels?
tom
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 11:36 AM |
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noticed a lot of cheap second hand oil coolers off bikes on ebay, is that a good option?? I assume i need to get a sandwhich plate for the oil filter
at the same time?
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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MK9R
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 11:40 AM |
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The honda VFR cooler looks neat and would be easy to install, but is it big enough??
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cars-Parts-Vehicles_Motorcycle-Parts-Accessories__HONDA-VTR1000-VTR1000F-VTR-1000-FIRESTORM-OIL-COOLER_W0QQitemZ190224198560QQdd
nZCarsQ2cQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20VehiclesQQadnZMotorcycleQ20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQddiZ3783QQadiZ4942QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item190224198560&_trkparms=7
2%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Does it have to be mounted horizontally, i was thinking of putting a scoop on the side panel and mounting it vertically in the scoop.
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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ash_hammond
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 11:58 AM |
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Fitted an oil cooler to my pinto as i was seeing high water temps. Its dropped about 10 degree off the temperature, i also believe there are is
another couple of degrees to be had with a vent cut into the nose since the cooler is still a little sheltered.
HTH confirm ur oil cooler thougths
.: www.mac1motorsports.co.uk | www.m1moc.com :.
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 12:15 PM |
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how is your rad positioned? What mesh grill do you have?
Oil cooler will definatly reduce the temp, but you are adding possible issues - e.g. you bin it into a tyre wall on a track, oil cooler which sits low
and at the front of the car would be one of the first thing damaged. If ti starts p|ssing out oil with engine still running due to hose coming off
then it would take no time to seize the engine.
If there are other alternatives then I'd look at them first, maybe you can increase flow to existing rad.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 01:25 PM |
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A water temp of 100c is OK, oil temp of 130 is quite high.
Normally look for oil temp about 5 to 15 degrees higher than water temp.
I would recommend fitting an oil cooler AND an oil thermostat.
I would also look at the arrangment of the nose cone water rad to ensure that the airflow was going through the rad core rather than around it.
After that if you are still uncomfortable with the temperure consider fitting a bigger rad.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 5/6/08 at 09:38 PM |
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I wouldnt be comfortable with 130c oil temps either, if its that temp in the sump its probably higher in the hotter parts of the engine too, and
130-140c is close to the limits of some oils where they'll start breaking down.
Id certainly look at putting an oil cooler on there, but I wouldnt personally get a second hand one. Most of the bike ones Ive seen aren't
really big enough anyway, and unless you can guarantee that any second hand cooler hasnt come off a blown engine, its not worth it because
they're high on impossible to clean properly to ensure there's no metal fragments in there which could end up in your engine.
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MK9R
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 06:29 AM |
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I spoke to Think Auto yesterday, and there coolers aren't expensive anyway, so going to go with a new one from them. Do you think a 7 row 53mm
high will be larger enough?? I want to fit it on the lower chassis rail front x member and cut the nose cone to expose it, and obviously don't
want it too high as it will interupt the flow of air to the water rad and leave and mean a too bigger cut in the cone.
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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Hellfire
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 08:03 AM |
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Before going for an oil cooler, I'd look at the airflow through the rad and under bonnet. If you can get maximum airflow through the radiator
and then duct it out before it bathes the engine in warm air, I reckon you might solve your temperature problems.
I'd also look at putting some vents in the bonnet to allow hot air to escape.
Phil
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MK9R
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 08:22 AM |
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mmmm, the rad sits tight in the nose cone, so can't see i can direct it any better, the under side of the engine bay is open, so surely must be
getting good through flow. I am going to add some vents in the nose cone (like i did on MK9R) and some vents in the side of the bonnet. The thing is,
i can only test it on a trackday, and with the price of trackdays now (usually £200+), i don;t want another trackday hampered by this problem. I did
150 track miles at oulton which is about average for me, but i was doing short sessions, i'd rather saty out a bit longer and do less sessions,
or if i do a sessioned day there is no way it would last the full 20 mins. I'm tempted just to bite the bullet and spend £150 on a cooler, palte
and pipes and hopefully be done with it and also have piece of mind.
Have you (hellfire) ever had any problems with heat?
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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JoaoCaldeira
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 09:20 AM |
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I can't remember by how much, but my temps lowered quite a bit after tunneling the nose to rad.
You can see a couple of pics here
Also, removing the mesh grille from the nose lowered the temps like 4ºC ou so... not much but it all helps...
Does anyone knows if this oil filter cooler works?
Good luck,
Joao
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MK9R
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 09:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoaoCaldeira
I can't remember by how much, but my temps lowered quite a bit after tunneling the nose to rad.
You can see a couple of pics here
Also, removing the mesh grille from the nose lowered the temps like 4ºC ou so... not much but it all helps...
Does anyone knows if this oil filter cooler works?
Good luck,
Joao
Nice job! I haven't got anywhere nesr that much space at the sides of my rad, but will try and fill it in. Did you make those ducts on the nose
cone, if not what are they from??
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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Hellfire
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 11:52 AM |
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We did initially have problems with the water/oil temperatures but have since cured them by various methods. We used expanding foam in the nose cone
to duct all the air through the rad and also removed the small mesh grille. Vents have also been cut in the bonnet for hot air to escape.
At present, the temps seem to be ok. Last trackday we did, the oil temp never exceeded 110 (Although the weather was quite cool). If we do see extreme
temperatures during the summer, our next step will be to duct the radiator heat through the side panels. Not the radiator itself!!!
Phil
[Edited on 6-6-08 by Hellfire]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 6/6/08 at 08:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
Do you think a 7 row 53mm high will be larger enough?? I want to fit it on the lower chassis rail front x member and cut the nose cone to expose it,
and obviously don't want it too high as it will interupt the flow of air to the water rad and leave and mean a too bigger cut in the cone.
Not big enough IMHO, there's no reason not to mount it in front of the rad though if you do it properly.
Here's mine, can't remember how many rows it is but it must be about 15cm high so maybe around 20 row. The hoses enter the cooler from the
top and go up over the water rad.
 
FrontEnd
As long as you get the oil cooler tight up against the water rad, you lose very little if any airflow through either. You can't leave a gap
though otherwise the air will stall in the middle and cause a significant loss of airflow.
[Edited on 6/6/08 by ChrisGamlin]
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MK9R
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| posted on 9/6/08 at 06:20 AM |
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thanks for that chris!!!! After speaking to Think Auto i'm going to order a 16 row version, as this is what most of the 750mc car use.
After looking ta the weekend I was going to mount similiar to yours, but let it protrude out of the bottom of the nose cone aswell, but of you say
that it hardly retricts the flow of air, i'll raise it up a bit to as to preserve some of the nose cone.
I've also realise, because of the shape of the nose cone, about the top 1/3rd of the rad isn't in direct airflow, so i'm going to
cut some big vents in the top surface of the nose cone inf ront of the rad, so more direct air is directed onto the top of the rad. But do you think
this may cause the air entering through front of the cone to then flow out of these vents rather than through the rad??
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 10/6/08 at 08:23 PM |
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Not sure about the additional holes but it could allow it to flow in then out again, so personally I wouldn't bother cutting holes in the top
half of the nosecone. If you think about it, even if the rad is not 100% visible from the front, there's more surface area of nosecone hole than
there is gaps in the rad surface for air to pass through so if you seal it up around the edge of the rad with expanding foam etc as mentioned before,
you'll be ramming plenty of air through the rad.
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MK9R
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| posted on 11/6/08 at 06:42 AM |
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That what i was thinking.
Ordered a 13 row (100mm high) cooler, sandwich plate and hoses from think auto £164 delivered, so i hope it bloody works!!!
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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MK9R
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| posted on 27/6/08 at 09:42 AM |
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It worked a treat, oil never went above 110, and water never above 90, even after a 25 minute hard session!!!! I haven't cut any extra holes in
the body work, so its all down to the cooler.
Just need a new exhaust, wheel bearings and fuel tank gaskets, fit bonnet scoop, cut more holes and a general tidy up now!!!
[Edited on 27/6/08 by MK9R]
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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