hobbsy
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| posted on 21/3/07 at 07:51 PM |
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HELP - R1 Oil pressure from oil cooler bolt, pain in the pipe dept!
Right.
I know a lot of you guys have used the oil cooler bolt as a point to measure oil pressure with a lot of success.
I decided to follow this path and so tapped the bolt 1/8" BSP and got a 300mm hose made to remote the (SPA) oil pressure sender (also 1/8"
BSP) away from the engine so it didn't vibrate to bits.
This was all going well but when I slacked off the bolt I realised I didn't have a lot of clearance, in fact I had to slacked the engine mounts
and jack the engine up in order to withdraw it as it was fouling the chassis rail.
I thought I'd be ok but didn't realise how much length the 1/8" BSP male to male coupler took up, and therefore far the oil pipe would
come out before it could start making a turn to avoid the chassis rail.
To mitigate against this I tagged on a 90 deg male to male (1/8" BSP) coupler to the parts order so that if necessary I could use that to go
through 90deg.
However I can't use this as its very short and the damn oil cooler bolt is concave - I can't screw it in without the 90deg part fouling the
oil cooler bolt head (and even if it did screw in I wouldn't be able to connect the oil pipe as it would be pointing at the inside of the hollow
bolt head).
So the only option was to try it straight and hope for the best.
But the photo below shows the result.
I'm not happy with this as its putting pressure on the pipe and will engine vibration and flex on the mounts it wouldn't be long before it
snapped off (pi55ing oil everywhere and maybe killing my engine).
I rang Think Auto back and asked if they had a 45deg male to male 1/8" BSP couple or a longer 90 deg one - NO.
I asked if they had any 90deg pipe fittings - YES but... once you add on the M/M coupler you are looking at either 35 or 50mm - both too long -
DOH!
So what I need is a way of going through 90 deg (or maybe even 45deg) in between about 15 and 25mm.
See the photo, its not ideal and the engine isn't all the way back down but it shows the problem and the limited space.
ARGH, one of these jobs you think will take an hour tops is being pushed back days!
And to top it off I tore the small tag off the oil cooler locking washer. They are £10.34+VAT (for a locking washer!) plus 5 days wait. Think I
might try and re-use it!
I'm going to try Pirtek tomorrow who have a trade counter in Moulton Park (Northampton) I don't know if they make random stuff up to order
though or just give you bits off the shelf?
[Edited on 21/3/07 by hobbsy]
 
Rescued attachment oil pipe pain.jpg
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hobbsy
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| posted on 21/3/07 at 07:55 PM |
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BTW you can't get male 1/8" BSP fittings put on a pressure pipe for you, well at least Think Auto or LMA don't do them. This was my
first thought.
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bodger
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| posted on 21/3/07 at 08:18 PM |
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Could you use a banjo fitting to bring the pipe out at 90deg.
I'll have to plumb my engine for P's &'T's at some point & was wondering if anyone had made up a sandwich plate for
the oil filter & taken them from there?
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hobbsy
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| posted on 21/3/07 at 08:35 PM |
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Can't use a banjo AFAIK as the need a flat face to fix against. The oil pressure bolt is concave.
I was going to go the oil sandwich route but as its next to the oil cooler I have a similar problem with clearance of the chassis rail, although
fortunately I can just about get the filter off without having to jack the engine up.
I also considered a oil filter relocator to take oil pressure and temp off but once I put the 90 deg fittings on it was too big to locate any where
without massive pipe runs. And the short pipe runs also went a bit too near to the manifold for my liking.
Hence I thought keep it simple and tap the sump for temp and tap the oil cooler bolt for pressure. I just didn't realise that I would need a
male/male to make it happen that makes it come out to far to bend through 90deg.
So the problem continues...
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locoR1
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| posted on 21/3/07 at 09:04 PM |
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Just had a look at my old oil cooler bolt its got a step in the center of it!
If you were to turn the outer lip of or turn it flat would it give you the clearance you need to use the 90 deg ?
Dave............
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hobbsy
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| posted on 21/3/07 at 09:10 PM |
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I'm not sure without having another look but it I was to turn it so it was flat I don't think there would be much of a hex left on the
bolt to put it back in with!
How do you mean your old oil cooler bolt has a step in it? Not that it helps me!
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locoR1
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| posted on 21/3/07 at 09:22 PM |
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I've changed to a Sandwich plate and conventional oil cooler to Keep temps down.
If my old bolt is any use to you it has a tapping in the center ( not very good but would clean up if you ran a tap down it)I could turn it flat and
put it in the post to you tomorrow if it would help?
Dave.................
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hobbsy
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| posted on 21/3/07 at 10:35 PM |
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LocoR1,
I don't fully understand how your oil cooler bolt is different to mine?
Would it even fit my engine? If I run out of options and this solves it and would fit I might take you up on that!
Thanks
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02GF74
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| posted on 22/3/07 at 07:41 AM |
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that isn't very good.
without going back over what was written, is looks like it is not an electrical sender but mechanical - i.e. a pipe of some sort with oil that goes to
the sender?
If it is, then fit a capillary pipe - that is much smaller diameter and being copper, you can bend it round a smaller radius.
You can make a gland and solder that on but would need to drill and tap your bolt for the fitting.
If you con't have cappillary tube - I've got as short length (10-20 cm knocking around somewhere I can send) then use brake pipe and a
brake pipe fitting.
You will gain some space, as to whetehr it will be enbough, who can say bear in mind your engine is going to flop about a bit.
----------
right, ignore all that. why not majke a take off before or after the oil cooler?
surely there has to be room for some fitting that can be altered to accept a take off for the guage?
[Edited on 22/3/07 by 02GF74]
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hobbsy
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| posted on 22/3/07 at 08:33 AM |
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02GF74 (is that some kind of amateur radio thing on the go?)
Its an electrical sender but needs to be remote mounted in this application because the vibration from the engine would kill it within a few hundred
miles. Also I couldn't mount it direct to the bolt anyway because its too big.
I'm not too keen on the idea of a copper pipe because of movement and vibration.
I *really* don't want this pipe to fail. I'm a bit paranoid about this as I've already killed one engine (ok it was a Blackbird)
due to a similar problem. And this engine was bought brand new from PDM with 0 miles for like £2k.
I think its either going to be some kind of off the shelf longer 90 deg male/male 1/8BSP adaptor thats going to save me. Or a 90 deg connector on the
pipe that isn't so long when you add on a 1/8 male/male straight coupler.
I'm going to see Pirtek (www.pirtek.co.uk) in Northampton later once they're open to see if they can help.
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TimC
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| posted on 22/3/07 at 09:19 AM |
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Take up LocoR1's offer - see how much meat you have left on the bolt and go from there. If the bolt is ok, the banjo will be a perfect
solution!
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hobbsy
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| posted on 22/3/07 at 10:11 AM |
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LocoR1 - if the offer still stands for the bolt turned flat I'll take it as I seem to be running out of options.
I'll U2U you as well.
Thanks.
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jimgiblett
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| posted on 22/3/07 at 10:24 AM |
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The FI R1 oil cooler bolt has a concave head and is significantly larger in both the head and shank. They are not interchangable.
LocoR1 - is yours a carb or FI motor?
IIRC you can get slightly longer steel 1/8" NPT adaptors (you could try speedflow - they are very helpful). Why BSP rather than NPT?
- Jim
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hobbsy
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| posted on 22/3/07 at 11:20 AM |
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Hi Jim,
I thought it was only a matter of time before you offered some help 
LocoR1's engine is carbed - so thats out (I'll send another U2U ASAP!)
I just went BSP as I had access to a very high quality tap and also the sender is BSP so then the pipe is BSP to BSP and no danger to me buggering it
up by putting it on the wrong way around (they are only 1 tooth per inch different IIRC)
Finally Jeff (who I think is getting slightly hacked off with me but shouldn't be cos I keep messing up and ordering stuff that doesn't
fit thus lining his pockets!) came up with a solution of a 1/8 BSP male to female which *should* bring it out far enough to use a banjo bolt. I could
have gone for a 1/8 BSP to banjo but it was slimmer if i went for a banjo on yet another braided hose. The hex of the male/female (extension
effectively) is 15mm so I've hopefully got a bit of room for tweaking by triming it down.
If this doesn't fit the bill this time I'm going to go spare!
It's not going to turn up til tomorrow so I'm going to drop it back down no the floor and take the dash off and do some wiring.
I'm good at wiring, its not as messy and you don't skin your knuckles!
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hobbsy
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| posted on 22/3/07 at 11:26 AM |
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Also Jim I'm annoyed with you because your photos made it look like yours just went straight in which it probably did. Ok yours is a Phoenix
and mines a Fury but its not on to mislead people like that with photos that make it look straightforward!
Ever thought about a job with Haynes?
"Look how easy this job is with the engine out of the car on a stand, but when you've got it in the car still you're going to be
buggered - heheh" etc
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jimgiblett
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| posted on 22/3/07 at 01:14 PM |
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That was on my old carbed motor. It was simple and that pipe had no adaptors it was just grease gun pipe. Only had one adaptor to join the pipe to
the sender £10 + the sender.
If you cant get it to work you can always let me have that swanky combo SPA guage  
- Jim
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hobbsy
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| posted on 22/3/07 at 01:20 PM |
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No way man, my dash is coming off today and the gauge is going in. I don't care if it doesn't actually read the oil pressure (and that
there's still no oil in my engine) at least it will light up blue and look cool
Forgot about that grease gun hose thing <scurries off to look for unused grease gun>
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hobbsy
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| posted on 23/3/07 at 02:01 PM |
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Right another £20 spent with ThinkAuto has produced this (see photo below).
Hopefully this will fit the bill. I still think I'm going to have to trim the hex part of the 1/8 BSP male to female to make it shorter but this
will hopefully do the trick (at last)
 
Rescued attachment oil pipe solution.jpg
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