smart51
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 posted on 27/8/05 at 05:31 PM |
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r1 won't start
I've put fuel in my car for the first time. I've given up waiting for my exhaust to arrive and I've tried to start the engine
anyway, just to see. It won't start, not even a cough or splutter. It turns over just fine, provided it's in neutral.
I removed a spark plug to see if there was a spark. I didn't see one. I've just thought as I'm typing this. I'll need an
earth on a removed spark plug, won't I?
Anyway, There is 12V going into the coils when the ignition is on, so that's OK I suppose. The instrument pack shows no warnings. Asside from
removing the plug again and earthing it this time, What might the problem be?
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smart51
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| posted on 27/8/05 at 07:57 PM |
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measured the resistance of the ignition coils' primary and secondary windings plus the pick up coil. All are OK.
Anyone any ideas?
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Coose
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| posted on 27/8/05 at 08:24 PM |
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Yes, you need to sit the removed plug on the head somewhere. They're a wasted spark coil, so it you don't ground one plug from a coil it
won't spark on the other plug from that coil either.....
Anyway, that's not your immediate problem.... Have you linked out the clutch and sidestand switches? Is the kill switch circuit made? All simple
stuff but easily missed if you don't quite understand your wiring diagram....
I'll just have a peek at the diagram and get back to you shortly.....
Spin 'er off Well...
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Coose
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| posted on 27/8/05 at 08:33 PM |
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I just wanted to check if the '98s had the Cyclelok option, and they do. Do you have either the Cyclelok fitted or the three (if I remember
rightly) linking connectors fitted to replace it? If not, and you've linked out the bits as previously mentioned that could be your problem.
If that's the case I can't point you in the right direction at the moment as the manual doesn't stated which Cyclelok connectors
need linking (for obvious reasons), and I'm not going to bet the chance to look at mine for a while (assuming a 2000 model is the same).
Maybe someone with a loom kicking about could help? Colibriman maybe?
Spin 'er off Well...
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smart51
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| posted on 27/8/05 at 08:35 PM |
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I cut off the plug for the side stand switch and soldered the two wires together. Same for the stop and start switch. The 12V into the start relay
was cut and the crank from my ignition switch fed into it. I must check the clutch switch.
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Coose
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| posted on 27/8/05 at 08:38 PM |
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Do the same for your clutch switch as you have for the side stand switch. And as I said, check to see if you have the Cyclelok connectord fitted -
there should be I think three normal 3 or 4 way connectors with links of black wire in them.
Spin 'er off Well...
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Coose
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| posted on 27/8/05 at 08:40 PM |
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If it helps, my loom worked first time.... 
(sorry - I'm in a naughty mood as it's my first weekend off call for weeks and I'd forgotten just how good beer was!  )
Spin 'er off Well...
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smart51
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| posted on 28/8/05 at 11:02 AM |
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The stop switch is shorted, evidenced by the fuel pump running and that the engine turnes over.
The Neutral switch works as the engine turns over in neutral but not in gear if the clutch switch is open.
The side stand switch is shorted as when the box is in gear and the clutch switch is shorted, the engine turns over (and the car shoots forwards,
didn't think that one through fully) 
The start switch and associated cycle lock is OK as the engine turns over.
The ECU - cycle lock - clutch / neutral / sidestand seems to be OK as when I disconnect it, the engine doesn't turn over.
Electrically, everything seems fine as far as my knowledge goes.
A fine white mist comes out of the exhaust ports when cranking and there is a smell of petrol afterwards, so fuel is getting to the cylinders. Must
make sure there are no sparks!
What else do I need to check?
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smart51
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| posted on 28/8/05 at 11:41 AM |
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the spark plugs are all new.
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smart51
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| posted on 28/8/05 at 09:21 PM |
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just been out with my torch. Spark plug casing touching bolt on top of engine (which bells out to chassis) Can't see a spark, even in the
dark.
Are you normally able to see a spark on a spark plug? I've never done this before. No spark can be seen so I guess there is no spark.
I've belled out the pick up coil from the to the ECU and to Ground. This is OK. What else kills the spark?
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 28/8/05 at 09:30 PM |
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Yes you should be able to see the spark quite easily, even in daylight.
Can't think of much else at the moment although my loom was all a bit different due to being injected, so not the best person to coment anyway
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hearnia
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| posted on 28/8/05 at 10:06 PM |
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Have you tested out at the connector for the coils?
Should be a smallish black connector with red, orange and grey wires attatched.
If you get no reading there you know its the CDI side of things, if you do get a reading, it could be knackered coils.
Also did you check all 4plugs and are sure it was a good earth?
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grafter
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| posted on 28/8/05 at 11:13 PM |
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Don't know much about the R1 and this may not be the answer but I had the exact same problem with my blade engine, tried everything but like
yourself nothing worked. So out of desperation I called a bike shop and explained the situation, immediately the guy said he knew the problem. If you
flood the engine you need to change the plugs, even if they are brand new.
So not believing that the solution was so simple I purchased new plugs and she started up first time.
Hope this helps!!
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smart51
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| posted on 29/8/05 at 02:49 PM |
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There is 12V on the both sides of both coils when the ignition is on. Switching the multimeter to AC and there is an AC voltage of 24V (explain that)
on the side of each coil that connects to the CDI. The coils all bell out with the correct resistance.
I have checked one plug from each pair and there is no spark.
How do I "test" the CDI then?
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hearnia
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| posted on 29/8/05 at 04:31 PM |
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If you're getting a reading at the coils, then I doubt its the CDI.
Next check is the leads, to check the power is flowing to the plug. if you're getting power to the end of the lead, then swap out the plugs for
an old set if you still have them.
Are the plugs covered in fuel when you have been cranking it over?
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smart51
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| posted on 29/8/05 at 05:08 PM |
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How do I check that there is power at the end of the plug leads?
I have belled out the pairs of plug leads on each coil to check the secondary resistance. There is an electrical connection from one plug lead,
through the coil, to the other plug lead in the pair.
I guess that there will be fuel on the plugs. One was slightly oily to the touch. Is it possible to clean them? I don't have the old plugs.
I could buy a new set but don't want to ruin them in the same way. Asside from the clutch switch, which only alows you to start in gear, I
havn't changed anything from the first time I cranked to now. It has all been "correct".
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smart51
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| posted on 30/8/05 at 07:50 PM |
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Latest progress... With the ignition on, but not cranking, I shorted the "other" side of one of the coils to ground and then released the
short. This is how a coil works. A small blue spark could be seen at the number 1 plug. OK so it's not the coils.
The pick up coil "tells" the ECU when to fire. How do I tell if the signal is correct? With my multi meter set on the 200V AC range (the
smallest) I measure 0.5V of voltage on the pickup when cranking. I'm running out of ideas here. What would you do in the same situation?
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tony9876
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| posted on 30/8/05 at 08:00 PM |
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What year is the motor mate as most newer bikes need a set resistor to short the ignition and other relays etc. The last one i did was a busa and i
needed about 3 resistors to get it to fire up. One accross the ignition switch,tip over sensor and another i cant remember.They all have to be an
exact impedance or nothing.
Things might be different on an R! though
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smart51
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| posted on 30/8/05 at 08:08 PM |
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Hi Tony,
My engine is a 1998 R1 4XV.
Resistors across the switches. I'd never thought of that. Stops hotwiring I guess.
The start and stop switches are OK, the stop switch supplies power to everything and so no resistor their, the start swich enables the starter relay
and this is working. The main switch, sidestand switch and clutch switch, that's another matter. Anyone?
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kurt
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| posted on 31/8/05 at 07:39 PM |
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R1 wont start, snap, same problem
I've just picked up on this thread.
I've been trying to solve this problem for weeks on my MK Indy build. I have a contact through Steve Knee at Sylva Kit Cars, who remembers a
customer having the same problem. I've left a message with the guy and will let you know if I get a result once I get in touch with him. Steve
Keenan at MK is also supposed to be pretty genned up, but is on holiday at the moment so I'll get in touch with him when he returns in a
fortnight. In the meantime, I'll post a reply if either of these produces a result. I look forward to seeing an answer on here if I
don't I can't get a result, so I'll keep looking and keep searching.
It's good to know I'm not the only one with this problem, hopefully we'll find an answer.
Cheers, Kurt.
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ChrisS
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| posted on 31/8/05 at 08:19 PM |
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Hi
Ive got a 99 R1 engine, the 4Xv model and i got it firing and started first time.
Apart from the obvious side stand wires and a few others that needed connecting together, i ended up with 2 black wires that appeared to be the 2
starting wires. I found that unlike a car that uses a + feed to turn the engine over, the R1 uses a negative feed. (So i wired it thru a relay
(standard 5 post open closed relay from premier wiring.) to switch the feed so it worked thru the car live feed at the key/ sierra ignition. (if that
makes sense.)
Ive now been and checked and this is how ive wired it up.
Just before the large white connector in the loom that goes to the clock and light loom:-
connect 2 wires black/yellow and blue yellow
connect the brown/blue on r1 loom to red on sierra iginition loom
connect the red on r1 loom to a heavy red on sierra iginition loom
In the right handle bar loom:-
connect the red/black on r1 loom to the red/white in r1 loom
connect black dashed with silver on r1 loom to position 30 in std relay.
connect other black dashed with silver on r1 loom to position 87 in std relay.
connect position 86 from std relay to heavy black/blue on sierra ignition loom.
connect position 85 from std relay to negative on battery.
In the r1 loom there is a connector that goes to the generator/alternator. here youll find 2 wires:-
connect the black to the blue/yellow
Hope all this babbling helps. It worked fine for me and fired up first time with a splash of jungle down the carbs.
Happy Playing
PS. I take no responsibility for anything i have said here. It is only what i have done, so please be cautious.
http://www.kitcars-forsale.com
 
Description
[Edited on 1/9/05 by ChrisS]
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Coose
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| posted on 2/9/05 at 07:55 PM |
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You have grounded the motor, haven't you!?!
Spin 'er off Well...
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smart51
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 10:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Coose
You have grounded the motor, haven't you!?!
Yes! The starter motor works without a problem... I have no spark.
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OX
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| posted on 3/9/05 at 11:53 AM |
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cdi cdi cdi cdi,sorry i brought the wrong one dude for you to try,,sheds is the same as my bro's so no luck there either,,or take your cdi to a
dealer and see if they will stick it on a bike and try it,at least it will rule it out
[Edited on 3/9/05 by OX]
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smart51
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| posted on 4/9/05 at 03:12 PM |
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Does anyone have a spare 1998 R1 4XV CDI they'd like to exchange for cash?
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