GeorgeL
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| posted on 19/4/06 at 06:47 PM |
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Right 12.9s not bad, but with a terminal of 104 its definately running out beans. 13.8 @ 100mph is pretty poor for a rwd kit car.
How would this compare to a redtop?
Thanks for the reply though, I am just weighing up my options and what I really can afford or what I really want to buy.
George
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 19/4/06 at 08:38 PM |
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I did a 13.4 @ 105mph in mine when it had a blade installed. Ive done another event since I installed the R1 and it did a smidge under 13s @ about
110mph. A friend's ZX12 Locost at the same event did 12.5 @ 115mph. All could be improved on with better tyres (I had my crap A509 Yokos on
which are hard as nails and over 2 years use have refused to wear AT ALL  ), and on a proper drag surface like Santa Pod, these times were on a
temporary strip set up at a car show on an Army airbase runway. I reckon mine could get down to mid 12's at least.
Chris
[Edited on 19/4/06 by ChrisGamlin]
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GeorgeL
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 06:25 AM |
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They sound like better times. Looking at some of the videos I think the launchs in the BEC are quite difficult
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russbost
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 08:36 AM |
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I think the biggest difference you would find would be in terms of driveability on the road & ease of standing start launch - the extra cubes
& torque are always going to make things a bit easier
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tks
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 08:47 AM |
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quote:
It's all hp/weight, torque is meaningless. HP ratings take torque into account.
to be able to drive on the limit you need a smooth torque/power curve its far more important then peak power...
peak power is just like full throttle or none.. or like a switch.. no one would like 1000Bhp and only 1000rpm..available..
sow thats the way the torque figures do matter and the rpm where they have it does say allot about the engine...
rpm / torque is like choosing gear...
in the right corner you need for the maximum speed a force...if don´t have that amount or its difficult to find/choose..
you will be loosing time against the maximum lowest lap time..
thats the reason everything what is fast revs!!
Tks
[Edited on 20/4/06 by tks]
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 10:36 AM |
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george do you not think a late 12- 13 seconds is quick on the quarter mile
these 7 type cars have the aerodynamics of a brick after 70mph
hence why there terminals are slower
but there 0-60 are ballisitic
these cars arent really for 0-100 stats or 1/4 miles
0-60 and they would lead the pack
on normal roads whether it be BEC or CEC
there is nothing that would keep with you
because I dont know of a road by me where you could hit 90mph before running out of road or hitting a good bend
so these cars are in there element
chris
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Coose
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 10:39 AM |
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1/8 of a mile times may make the performance more evident, d'yer reckon?
Spin 'er off Well...
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 10:43 AM |
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yep theres always an answer for everything
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GeorgeL
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 10:44 AM |
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Yea its a valid point Chris but I have also disregarded 0 - 60 as a performance stat in the past. 0 - 100 has always been the main bench mark for me.
I know on track speeds needed are around 40 - 120 going on past expirience obviously depending on the circuit.
I think anything in the 12s is quick, however I have a Saxo that has kit high 13s and thats bloody fwd, so no I don't tend to think thats so
good. Mid 12s or faster would be something I am looking for.
And of course like you say handling is a big attraction! 
1/8s will be quick its the last 1/8 I am interested in.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 10:52 AM |
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well agree to disagree then
no probs
the rear wheel drive is fine
ie handling and sprints
and thats why BECs can achieve 60 in late threes if setup properly
but the aerodynamics are the problem with any 7
even on a track though Most BECS I know of pull of superb times that youd need one expensive car to compete against them
that goes for CECs aswell
chris
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GeorgeL
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 11:01 AM |
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I'm certainly not disagreeing Chris you have some valid points. However, traffic light grandprix isn't really what I am after, no matter
how much fun it might be. On track when do you really dip below 40mph, certainly never standing.
I also appriciate the aerodynamics are poor.
Either way I think a BEC is what I am steering to. How much should I be looking to pay for a well built MK busa? Also can you point me to a good
source. I have looked on piston heads and autotrader, but there must be other places.
George
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 11:11 AM |
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dont you fancy building one
Ive just finished my r1 and it has cost me 9k
If id have sourced more second hand stuff like wheels and not worried about stuff like OMP steering wheels and quick releases I could of knocked 1.5k
off the cost
Busas are expensive engines
OX has one on here and hellfire has a zx12r which doesnt cost as much as the busa
but is almost just as powerful
chris
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GeorgeL
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 11:16 AM |
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As much as I would like to build one I don't really have the paitence, the techinical know how, space, time or the budget for the unknown.
I have seen many bike engined mks on piston heads for 6k upwards, so building my own and having to wait seems pointless. I know some people enjoy this
and I can fully understand why, but for me its not what I am after.
Good places to buy?
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 11:23 AM |
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piston heads ebay or on here
go to shows aswell theres always a few for sale
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Hellfire
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 11:36 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeL
Right 12.9s not bad, but with a terminal of 104 its definately running out beans.................
Definitely NOT running out of beans at 104mph. The problem is in the launch technique and being able to minimise wheelspin. I reckon that 12.9secs can
be greatly improved on with more practice.
The ZX12R engine has slightly more BHP than the Busa but also has slightly less torque. Overall, they are both very similar, except in one
area......... price 
Phil
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Andy North
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 12:11 PM |
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The Busa is soo quick Just a shame I am such a bad driver
I have seen the price of an 06 R1 on here at around 2k, which puts it as more expensive than the ZX12?
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GeorgeL
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 12:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeL
Right 12.9s not bad, but with a terminal of 104 its definately running out beans.................
Definitely NOT running out of beans at 104mph. The problem is in the launch technique and being able to minimise wheelspin. I reckon that 12.9secs can
be greatly improved on with more practice.
The ZX12R engine has slightly more BHP than the Busa but also has slightly less torque. Overall, they are both very similar, except in one
area......... price
Phil
To give you an idea Phil I have a hot hatch that recorded a 13.8 @ 102mph mate. If you see where I'm coming from.
I am also confused about busa power, I thought there were supposed to be 180bhp?
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 01:03 PM |
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it must be a special hot hatch though
a vts would struggle to do under 15's
most scoobs evos pulsars with general tuning only run late 13's
what saxo do you know of unless heavily tuned etc that would keep up with the above
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GeorgeL
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 01:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zxrlocost
it must be a special hot hatch though
a vts would struggle to do under 15's
most scoobs evos pulsars with general tuning only run late 13's
what saxo do you know of unless heavily tuned etc that would keep up with the above
At pod a Vts with Filter and exhaust will hit about 15.2.
Mild cams and a remap and you will see anything as low as 14.5.
Throttle bodied cars can get down to almost 14 on the nose.
Supercharged and turbo cars run high 13s with terminals approaching 110mph.
Obviously all 60ft times are way off as are 330ft.
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 01:42 PM |
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We've got Toyota Glanza's that run in low 13's here, and a few that go down to mid-12's. Very nice little 1300cc engine
with a stock 135bhp figure. It will go to about 180-190 on stock internals, but changing to an all-forged internals will give you an engine that is
bullet proof up to about 350bhp, or maybe more .... dunno we haven't been there yet 
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G.Man
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 03:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clutch_kick
We've got Toyota Glanza's that run in low 13's here, and a few that go down to mid-12's. Very nice little 1300cc engine
with a stock 135bhp figure. It will go to about 180-190 on stock internals, but changing to an all-forged internals will give you an engine that is
bullet proof up to about 350bhp, or maybe more .... dunno we haven't been there yet
Yeah I want one of them glanza's... we got loads of them here in Cyprus as well..
They are such sleepers...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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clutch_kick
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 04:42 PM |
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I know of an MK chasssis ( I think) here in Malta with on of those engines ... the 4e-fte. It should be on the 200bhp mark.
but i haven't seen it on the road yet.
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JoelP
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 05:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Andy North
The Busa is soo quick Just a shame I am such a bad driver
I have seen the price of an 06 R1 on here at around 2k, which puts it as more expensive than the ZX12?
The 2006 r1 is arguably better than the zx12 anyway, its only 10bhp less but 30kgs less, which makes it *possibly* faster like for like round a track.
Plus obviously its a very low milage lump, the 1500 pound zx12s are usually 02/03 vintage.
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cossey
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 05:55 PM |
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my 06 r1 was £1900 but had less than 100 miles on it a low ish mile 2005 engine should be £1600-1700.
it weights 58kg without loom (so just about the lightest bec engined used atm) and has 175bhp. with a decent exhaust, longer inlet trumpets and a
remap through a pc3 then 185 should be possible, and replacing the headgasket with the thinner racing one (available at the bigger dealers for £60)
supposedly adds another 5bhp although i havent seen back to back test to confirm this
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 20/4/06 at 06:34 PM |
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Ive only bothered trying / logging it once, but my best 0-100 time with the R1 engine is 9.8s again on the hard road tyres and a launch I wasnt
particularly pleased with, so low 9s would be achievable at least.
BECs can be tricky to launch but once you get the technique right it does seem quite easy to hook them up.
Have a look at a few of the videos of the Fluke Motorsport R1 Westfield on their
website, particularly the Brighton Speed Trials 1/4 mile run (which was high 12's I think) and the top/bottom vids of on the road
driving.
Chris
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