Paul G
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 08:27 AM |
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R1 Indy - poor performance
Morning all,
Finally got to go out in my motor last night after getting it SVA'd and registered, fixing and uprating the clutch and waiting for the never
ending rain to stop. Problem is I still dont think its running right, it just doesnt feel as fast as it should. I've read on this site that you
can get to 60 in 1st gear but I hit what seems like the rev limiter at about 35 and have to change up. The same in every gear no sooner do I shift up
then it sounds like the rev limiter is kicking in and I have to change gear again - the car struggles to go over 80mph. Could this just be down to the
engine being badly tuned or something else like fuelling? Is there a safe mode rev limit on the R1 like there is on some cars when the engines cold or
the ecu senses a problem?
Any help and ideas will be much appreciated. Its a 98 R1 with a sausage air filter by the way.
Cheers
Paul
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donut
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 08:31 AM |
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I'm no expert but the 1st thing that i thought was gear ratio at the diff. May help if you post what diff you have.
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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andyharding
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 08:34 AM |
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Sorry to hear you are still having problems Paul. Let me know if I can help.
I take it the new plugs didn't help?
Are you a Mac user or a retard?
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Phil.J
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 08:38 AM |
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If not diff ratio then slipping clutch???
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Paul G
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 08:42 AM |
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Not sure what diff I have to be honest, MK supplied it to me so I assumed it was suitable but if the ratios were wrong which lead to shorter gearing
(ie changing up sooner) would that not make acceleration faster? I'll try and find out what diff it is.
Hi Andy,
Long time no see - it does feel better after changing the plugs and even more so after uprating the clutch but its still nowhere near right from what
I can tell. Problem is I've been so busy the last 2 months I've been nowhere near the car and this was only my second drive out in it.
First time the clutch went, then last night the clutch cable snapped! PS havent forgotten your wheels will drop them round when I get 10 minutes
spare!
Phil - I originally thought it could be this but have put in ebc clutch plates and doubled up on the diaghpram spring thats why I'm wondering if
it could be something electrical
[Edited on 25/5/06 by Paul G]
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 08:48 AM |
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hi paul wind your mixture screws all the way in the ones that are at an angle above the air bleed allan keys
wind them all the way IN small flat head gently and tell me how many turns in they are first they should all be about the same
then wind them (well say first your car hasnt been dynojetted)
2 and a quarter turns out from memory
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 08:48 AM |
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hi paul wind your mixture screws all the way in the ones that are at an angle above the air bleed allan keys
wind them all the way IN small flat head gently and tell me how many turns in they are first they should all be about the same
then wind them (well say first your car hasnt been dynojetted)
2 and a quarter turns out from memory
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 08:51 AM |
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if its a carb engine theres only really the few things electrical
the worst things are usually starring you in the face and a simple fix
it should do more than 35 easily whatever diff
how olds the petrol mate
that wouldnt hold it back loads but believe me it helps
especially if fuellings not right
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smart51
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 08:55 AM |
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My R1 car reaches 52 MPH in first at 12000 RPM with a 3.62 diff and 195/50/15s
You have a foam filter. Have you had it dynojetted? The fuelling could be off at high revs. Try moving the circlips on the jet needles to see if
that improves things. I richened my standard needles right up and that improved my car a bit before I fitted the dyno jet kit.
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richijenkin
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 09:01 AM |
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Has it been dynojetted? and does it have trumpets on the carbs? Mine was doing this, my bro sorted it by blocking of the four little holes.
DOH! dam,... er.. poo.... I cant remember which holes they are.... OOOoooxxxxxx!!!
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Paul G
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 posted on 25/5/06 at 09:29 AM |
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As far as I know its never been dynojetted but I dont know the history of the engine, is there any way of telling? - this is something I was hoping to
get my mate to do when he's back off his holiday. The suggestions that the fuelling is off at high revs sounds about right, it starts popping
and splutterin and backfiring. To be honest I wouldnt know where to look for circlips on the jet needles is there any more info anywhere about this?
Rich - there are no trumpets on the carbs just the metal holes going straight to the butterfly valves. If you could find out where these 4 holes I
need to block are I'd be grateful
The petrol in there is fresh though its only cheap crap sumermarket stuff, as soon as I can get it to go far enough I'll be putting optimax in
it.
Thanks for all the suggestions gents - by the sounds of it hopefully its nothing too serious
[Edited on 25/5/06 by Paul G]
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richijenkin
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 09:45 AM |
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here you go... block these holes off.
stick cocktail sticks down them first and go down the road, before u do something permanant.
now for that u've gotta come to the meet at ternhill tonight at 8. or we could meet u at the Swan...?
 
Rescued attachment r1carbs.jpg
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 09:50 AM |
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paul my U2U suggestion and richies suggestion are the first two Id try mate
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Peteff
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 09:51 AM |
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Have you got enough travel on the throttle pedal?
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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MikeR
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 10:01 AM |
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irrespective of the amount of travel, how rich its running etc if its hitting the rev limiter the engine can not spin any faster.
At 35mph i'd say something was wrong. Are you sure the clutch is not slipping, that the clutch cable was fully releasing?
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 10:07 AM |
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Ive already asked him about the clutch slip hes pretty certain as its new its ok
and youd feel clutch slip its pretty noticeable
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Paul G
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 10:16 AM |
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Cheersfor the picture rich I'll give that a go - do these need blocking off then cos we're not using the airbox? Fraid I wont be going
anywhere in it for a bit though till I get a new clutch cable made up!
Throttle pedal travel is another possible thing I need to check didnt think of that one!
Mike I'm not sure wether it is the actual rev limiter kicking in it just feels like it, the engine is stuttering and backfiring at the same
point. At that point its so noisy its hard to tell whats going on when your not used to these becs in the first place
[Edited on 25/5/06 by Paul G]
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jimgiblett
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 10:18 AM |
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The question is it revving out properly. ie. is it hitting the limiter or just feeling like it is hitting a limiter. If the former and revs are
increasing but not speed it will be clutch if the latter it sounds more like fueling. With no dynojet kit it is probably running very lean and when
it hits 4-5k it "fluffs" out (a feeling not disimilar to a limiter).
- Jim
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Paul G
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 10:47 AM |
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Jim - When the speed increase stops so do the revs so I dont think its clutch slip. Another problem I've got though is my rev counter is a
digital bar chart type thing and I have no idea how accurate it is! I'm judging it all on the final in gear speed and the fact that the revs
dont sound as high as I'd expect along with the stuttering and hesitation
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G.Man
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 11:01 AM |
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Your engine is running too lean...
The revlimiter does not spit and backfire, I am assuming you have got a race can on it, and now its not got the backpressure to run the
"emissions friendly" stock setup..
You are likely running out of rpms about 6-8,000 ish
Get it dynojetted and then let us know how it is
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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smart51
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 11:02 AM |
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I tried blocking the air jet holes. It made it run VERY badly. I unblocked the holes and it ran well again. The holes are the air jets under the
carb trumpet holders that don't unscrew.
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jimgiblett
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 11:34 AM |
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Fuelling sounds like the problem then. Dynojet kit should sort that. 144 or 150 mains, Clip 3 or 4.
- Jim
quote:
Originally posted by Paul G
Jim - When the speed increase stops so do the revs so I dont think its clutch slip. Another problem I've got though is my rev counter is a
digital bar chart type thing and I have no idea how accurate it is! I'm judging it all on the final in gear speed and the fact that the revs
dont sound as high as I'd expect along with the stuttering and hesitation
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andyharding
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 12:01 PM |
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Running lean sounds about right to me.
Can you get a spare set of main jets and drill them out to 150?
Are you a Mac user or a retard?
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birt
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 12:05 PM |
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Paul,
I strongly agree with the general consensus that you need to get the carbs Dyno-jetted. My ZX9R has a sausage filter and a free flowing Stuart Taylor
exhaust and when I took it to TTS for jetting it was leaning out completely at 7,000rpm and producing a max power of only 88BHP!!! The guys at TTS
were not surprised at this since the set-up breathes a lot easier and sucks more air through and hence there is not enough fuel going in.
When I left a few hours later I had 161BHP and it transformed the car from fairly quick to an unguided missile, I nearly crapped myself when I first
put my foot down. It was the best few hundred quid I’ve ever spent.
They were surprised at how much power I came out with though and seemed to think that my engine might have a had the head skimmed at some point as
they would usually expect more like 155BHP from a ZX9R with this set-up. That might help explain why my engine was so bad to start with?
Anyway, get it jetted, and my advice would be get it done by a professional. The guys at TTS are great and let you get as involved as you like.
Marc
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russbost
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| posted on 25/5/06 at 12:15 PM |
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Don't have any experience with the R1, but when I took the standard airboxes off my Zx10's they ran so lean as to be almost undriveable,
so I would agree with the general consensus too.
One REALLY IMPORTANT thing is that if you keep driving it like this it could hole pistons/burn valves - not good
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