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busa clutch or gearbox problem
kentmagpie - 30/7/14 at 04:29 PM

Hi guys,

Done around 300 miles now in under 2 weeks without fault and all of a sudden got a nasty noise appeared from clutch basket/gearbox area. I can only describe it as when u apply the clutch pedal down to the floor you get a real rotational graunchy noise that lasts for about a second. It's obviously something that turns with clutch up and stops when clutch is down but u only here the noise when the clutch pedal is pressed down and only for a split second. I don't know anything about bike clutches and gearboxes and how they work. Any ideas guys?

Thanks in advance

Jon Ison - 30/7/14 at 04:53 PM

One quick check, do you have a stop on the pedal, it's not got too much travel?

kentmagpie - 30/7/14 at 05:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
One quick check, do you have a stop on the pedal, it's not got too much travel?


I don't know I can't physically check now as I left the car at work as I didn't wanna cause any damage. The car has wilwood hydraulic clutch and brake pedals. I did find the lower bolt on the slave to be slightly loose but if anything it made it worse. Thinking about it there does appear to be quite a lot of pedal travel but can't be sure.

Thanks for reply

Jon Ison - 30/7/14 at 06:01 PM

Not saying it is your problem but needs to be checked, you can over travel the clutch remember your left leg can supply slightly more force than a couple of fingers, I set the pedal stop on mine by placing it in gear depress the clutch as soon as I can push the car that's where i stop the pedal travel.

b3ngy - 30/7/14 at 06:32 PM

As above could be a good place to start. Always fit a clutch pedal stop on a bec.

kentmagpie - 30/7/14 at 06:37 PM

Ok guys thanks for the input ill do that first thing in the morning. Why would the noise only have just started?

[Edited on 30/7/14 by kentmagpie]

Andy B - 30/7/14 at 06:48 PM

Think you will find the guys have nailed it for you - had two in like this in the last few weeks and in both cases over select of clutch due to lack of stop has been the issue - the graunchy noise on depression is most likely the head of the spring retaining bolts hitting the inside of the cover so be sure to pull the clutch cover off and check for swarf and damage
Regards
Andy

kentmagpie - 30/7/14 at 07:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Andy B
Think you will find the guys have nailed it for you - had two in like this in the last few weeks and in both cases over select of clutch due to lack of stop has been the issue - the graunchy noise on depression is most likely the head of the spring retaining bolts hitting the inside of the cover so be sure to pull the clutch cover off and check for swarf and damage
Regards
Andy


Thanks Mr bates

Just out of interest apart from the obvious strip down to remove swarf, can a flush be used in bike oil or is this a complete no no. I'll definitely give it an oil and filter change now, what oil do u recommend I put in?

[Edited on 30/7/14 by kentmagpie]

Andy B - 30/7/14 at 07:08 PM

I would just clean it all meticulously and drain and replace the oil - i is it dry sumped - if so pay particular attention to the filters in the scavenge ports, if it isn't ........ Consider fitting one

Andy B - 30/7/14 at 07:12 PM

Sorry I missed the query re oil - I tend to do my own thing here as manufacturers assume the motor is in a bike but as it is going in the car it will be used far more at WOT and be subjected to potential surge so I had the guys at Maxima supply us with a 15w50 synthetic with just about the highest shear stress on the market. Truth be known it probably costs a couple of hp but pressure is higher, gearbox sweeter and temps down when running on it so I have stuck with it

kentmagpie - 30/7/14 at 07:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Andy B
Sorry I missed the query re oil - I tend to do my own thing here as manufacturers assume the motor is in a bike but as it is going in the car it will be used far more at WOT and be subjected to potential surge so I had the guys at Maxima supply us with a 15w50 synthetic with just about the highest shear stress on the market. Truth be known it probably costs a couple of hp but pressure is higher, gearbox sweeter and temps down when running on it so I have stuck with it


Unfortunately it's not dry sumped but baffled with swinging pick up. Is that oil specially sourced for you or can I pick up that grade up from a bike or car parts store? I'm all over this tomorrow now, hopefully my pedal assembly has some form of stopping mechanism or whether I'll have to modify it

Andy B - 30/7/14 at 07:23 PM

It's supplied from the States but I always keep it on the shelf as we run all our blades on it - if you need some let me know
Regards
Andy
Ps watch your oil pressure like a hawk on that sump especially on roundabouts - if a dry sump is out of the question then an accusump can be used as a bit of a sticking plaster for the problem

Jon Ison - 30/7/14 at 07:34 PM

Andy, will drop u a line on your return re oil, I'm do a change and will give the stuff a go if it's on the shelf, 4ltr cans ?

kentmagpie - 30/7/14 at 07:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Andy B
It's supplied from the States but I always keep it on the shelf as we run all our blades on it - if you need some let me know
Regards
Andy
Ps watch your oil pressure like a hawk on that sump especially on roundabouts - if a dry sump is out of the question then an accusump can be used as a bit of a sticking plaster for the problem


I might just bell u in the morning to order some of that oil but to get me out the poo and back on the road tomoz what grade do u recommend? I know what a dry sump is and what it does but what's an accusump?

Andy B - 30/7/14 at 07:51 PM

If you u2u me a contact number I will call you in the am - am flying out on holiday tomorrow but will touch base to fill in all details before I go - accusump is a pressure accumulator full of oil connected to the main gallery it's job is to step in and temporarily boost oil pressure when the sump fails to supply oil it then refills itself when oil pressure is reinstated - it doesn't stop surge but it does tackle the symptoms
Hope that helps - gotta dash now as haven't even bloody packed yet send me a number and I will call before I leave
Andy

b3ngy - 30/7/14 at 10:53 PM

Not sure what your pedal setup is like but I modified the original mk pedal stop as it just kept moving. Can post a pic tomorrow if it helps?

kentmagpie - 31/7/14 at 06:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by b3ngy
Not sure what your pedal setup is like but I modified the original mk pedal stop as it just kept moving. Can post a pic tomorrow if it helps?


That'd be great cheers, should be at work in about 15 mins to which it's gonna get attacked. All I know it's got a hydraulic wilwood clutch and brake pedal set on it.

b3ngy - 31/7/14 at 12:12 PM

[img] Description
Description [/img]

The threaded bar touches the bulk head. This allows the stop bracket to be set as required without having to grolly up the clutch pedal bolt.

I'm sure others have done it differently.

HTH.

Ben

kentmagpie - 31/7/14 at 06:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by b3ngy
[img] Description
Description [/img]

The threaded bar touches the bulk head. This allows the stop bracket to be set as required without having to grolly up the clutch pedal bolt.

I'm sure others have done it differently.

HTH.
The
Ben


Cheers for the pic, I've sorted out the noise. It's was the pedal travel. From here I discovered another issue where my slave cylinder and connecting rod are slipping creating a clicking sound and feeling at the top of the clutch pedal. Seems to be an alignment issue which is head scratchingly annoying. I've also gotta change oil, oil filter and strip off clutch casing and sump checking for damage and swarfing. It's not like I wanted to be driving it at all and making the most of this weather

On a plus note I've had my decals done and will soon post up the photos when she's back on the road.

b3ngy - 31/7/14 at 07:22 PM

Better to spend a few hours and pennies to potentially save an engine.

Look forward to some pics, was thinking of getting some decals for mine.

CosKev3 - 31/7/14 at 08:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by b3ngy
Not sure what your pedal setup is like but I modified the original mk pedal stop as it just kept moving. Can post a pic tomorrow if it helps?


Is that deffo supplied by MK?

As my m8's Indy R hes building now did not come with any pedal stops,for clutch or throttle.

kentmagpie - 31/7/14 at 08:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by b3ngy
Better to spend a few hours and pennies to potentially save an engine.

Look forward to some pics, was thinking of getting some decals for mine.


Don't get to excited, I had some old stickers removed and had some go faster stripes added that are just a touch different to the normal. I must admit I saw them on another car so it's not my idea.

b3ngy - 31/7/14 at 09:23 PM

quote:

Is that deffo supplied by MK?

As my m8's Indy R hes building now did not come with any pedal stops,for clutch or throttle.


The black U shaped bracket I believe is supplied by mk. The threaded bar and nut welded to the bracket is my own modification.

On a side note I noticed your avatar. Do you know pugheaven from gti6 forum?

CosKev3 - 1/8/14 at 07:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by b3ngy
quote:

Is that deffo supplied by MK?

As my m8's Indy R hes building now did not come with any pedal stops,for clutch or throttle.


The black U shaped bracket I believe is supplied by mk. The threaded bar and nut welded to the bracket is my own modification.

On a side note I noticed your avatar. Do you know pugheaven from gti6 forum?


not personally, but know him off the forum yeah . don't go on there now my Rallye has gone.

Hes building a very nice big spec dimma gti6

b3ngy - 1/8/14 at 02:53 PM

quote:

Hes building a very nice big spec dimma gti6


He is a indeed. I work with him.

kentmagpie - 2/8/14 at 07:55 AM

right I have a definite issue now.

after fannying about with the slave thinking it was a positional issue and getting everything set up properly, the graunchy noise came back again and immediately followed by the same cliking noise.

Ive adjusted the pedal to compensate for over select of clutch. The clicking noise appears to be from where the slave meets the clutch operating shaft. But the 2 are combined, everything was fine for maybe 4 or 5 depresses and then all of a sudden the graunchy noise came back and straight away the clicking noise as well. Im now gonna have to strip off the clutch case to see whats happening but I wondered if u guys had ever came across this sort of thing???

I wouldn't mind if id had the car for more than 5 mins but im starting to this thing is gonna be plagued with issues

kentmagpie - 2/8/14 at 01:55 PM

Right I fixed it.

One thing I noticed is that I had to do a bucket load of stop travel to make any significant impact on slave/rod movement. I wound my stop back by an inch and it only made 1 -3mm difference at the rod itself. I also noticed that due to poor positioning of my slave the rod keeps popping out the centre of the piston. Every time it does this it lengthens the rod due to the piston being curved out. That then gives extra travel on the rod hence pushing the clutch out further. Literally had to wind my clutch stop right out so that even if the rod pops out it still won't hit the casing. These things are sent to test us.
I do have a very short clutch now though. Hope this may help someone in the future with a similar problem. Thanks for all ur replies