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Anyone using lauch control on bike engine ?
neo2 - 10/10/10 at 06:42 PM

Hi just looking into lauch control systems and spotted omex unit
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Performance/Ignition_System/Shift_Lights_&_Rev_Limiters/OMEX_Clubman_Rev_Limiter_With_Launch_Control/823/3528

I am looking for something that i can preset to a certain revs for race starts spotted this but it states twin coil systems or single but am i right in thinking my GSXR engine has a 4 coil system ??

anyone using a similar device or know of any other makes etc, shame my power commander dont do it...

minitici - 10/10/10 at 06:59 PM

Have a look at XoomBox
Stephen Alexander and David Loomes have developed a superb Traction Control/Launch Control and Data Logging system.

[Edited on 10/10/10 by minitici]

franky - 10/10/10 at 07:09 PM

I'm using a racelogic system, its a very clever system and allows traction control/launch control/full throttle shift with logging. It doesn't just cut the fuel it controls individual injectors to stop the causing engine damage. Fully adjustable too.

bitsilly - 10/10/10 at 07:10 PM

I saw a Radical at Llandow a couple of weeks ago, and it definitely had some kind of launch control, so try calling them?
It sounded like something from hell!

Stott - 10/10/10 at 08:14 PM

That radical was setup last by Holeshot racing in Ireland where it recieved the low comp busa turbo lump, don't think it has launch control though?

Didn't help him in getting away from us though even if he did, hahahahahaha!!!!

hobbsy - 10/10/10 at 09:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by minitici
Have a look at XoomBox
Stephen Alexander and David Loomes have developed a superb Traction Control/Launch Control and Data Logging system.

[Edited on 10/10/10 by minitici]


Not seen that one before - nice but not cheap.

If you just want launch control its fairly cheap to get a box just to do that.

The RLTC is more expensive as it has TC.

Finally the xoombox does all sorts of stuff, logging etc etc and I'm not sure what RLTC costs nowadays but back when I bought mine it was around the cost of the xoombox but the xoombox does sooo much more.

The other thing to be aware of is that the Omex launch box you linked to on DT aren't as clever as more expensive units in that they don't have wheel sensors (or tap into ABS sensors) to know how much wheelspin you're getting and reduce power to compensate once you're actually starting to move.

[Edited on 10/10/10 by hobbsy]

neo2 - 10/10/10 at 09:42 PM

To be honest im just looking for something to get the car off the line easier, while holding down a button etc, without spending a fortune, data logging and gps and stuff will be waisted on me as i would'nt be able to work it more than likely etc...

T66 - 11/10/10 at 03:29 PM

I secured one of these for a snip over £500.


http://www.dtafast.co.uk/S_60_PRO.htm



Ive no immediate plans to use the launch facility, but its on the list of jobs to look at.

hobbsy - 11/10/10 at 07:18 PM

Yeah good point, a lot of standalone ECU's has these sorts of features built in now and some of them don't cost that much more than a standalone TC / LC unit.

So if you're thinking of going standalone ECU anyway then you save a fair wedge...

neo2 - 11/10/10 at 07:26 PM

i was'nt planning on going stand alone ECU done it with the last 5/6 builds and cant justify the costs on this one..

matt_gsxr - 11/10/10 at 07:47 PM

meagsquirt supports launch control.

Haven't tried it yet.

Matt

neo2 - 11/10/10 at 08:54 PM

still an ecu replacement though

zilspeed - 12/10/10 at 08:58 AM

I had no idea that the Xoombox had so much capability in it.

The data logging is a huge benefit.
The ability to integrate gear shifting along with logging and traction / launch is fantastic.

A few quid when all added together, but compared to a shiny new gearbox or engine, relatively small change.

Ish.

Want one

Sure he could have been muuuuuch quicker onto the back straight though

kjouk - 12/10/10 at 09:42 AM

I use a DTA S80 on a busa turbo, launch is lots of fun

But it does not really make you quicker just more consistent from what we see at sprints in 0-64ft times. Unless you are running lots of power then practice may be your cheaper option.

neo2 - 12/10/10 at 05:00 PM

How much are those zoom boxes like ??

sebastiaan - 12/10/10 at 06:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
meagsquirt supports launch control.

Haven't tried it yet.

Matt


I have, works a treat (until my diff decided to die... ;-) )

Basically it holds the engine at a predetermined RPM by cutting and retarding spark or cutting fuel (spark in my case, which leads to 30cm flames from the exhaust if it's hot enough) as long as you hold down the button. I have modified it by adding a front wheel speed sensor so that the launch control stays active until roughly 40 km/h. After that, the megasquirt reverts back to normal operation.

This of course won't be helpful if you do not run MS but it basically does what you are after and works pretty good. So I'd be looking at fitting a programmable / two stage rev limiter and trying to control it through a front wheel speed sensor. Should not be that expensive to rig up.

Rember though, this kind of thing EATS clutches, gearboxes and diffs....

launch control start
launch control start



[Edited on 12/10/10 by sebastiaan]

sebastiaan - 12/10/10 at 06:50 PM

something like this might work with very little modification: ebay linky

neo2 - 12/10/10 at 08:35 PM

Something like this looks like the sort of thing i'm after..

http://www.mpsracing.com/products/MSD/Launchmaster.asp

bitsilly - 14/10/10 at 11:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Stott
That radical was setup last by Holeshot racing in Ireland where it recieved the low comp busa turbo lump, don't think it has launch control though?

Didn't help him in getting away from us though even if he did, hahahahahaha!!!!



Was that the Total kit car day? I was only there for 5mins so didn't see much. The Radical sounded superb spitting and popping but I'm surprised it is a busa turbo! The bloke was apparently going to bring another car but couldn't.
Good to hear it wasn't getting away!

davidloomes - 3/1/11 at 02:13 PM

Hi Gents,

First to introduce myself: I'm David Loomes, the 'oom' in XoomSpeed and the guy that built the XoomBox.

I don't normally like posting on sites like these since it tends to look like advertising, so if anyone objects, just say and I won't do it again. On the other hand, if you'd like to know more about what we've built, Stephen and I are just 2 blokes who build and sprint a kit car (Westfield) who're happy to share what we've learned with anoyone who's interested, so drop me an e-mail and I'll be glad to chat that way or we can swap phone nos.

To answer the question the OP asked, yes this system has been used with bike engined cars. There's a Z-Cars mini runs in the Scottish series with an 8 injector 'Busa with a power commander. It now has one of my systems on it and is running well. That's as complex an installation as you're likely to encounter, so I was well chuffed when it worked.

Yes also, I'll admit our driving at Ingliston wasn't exactly fast! First time there is my only defense although I should point out I did finish the day with the class record . OK, I know the class has only competed there once!

Some of you might find this video more interesting. The thing to watch for is the colour of the throttle bar in the centre of the screen - it indicates how active the launch/traction control is. The more deep red, the more injectors are being cut. It's especially good in this sequence because the track started damp and got slowly drier throughout the day, hence the final run is 10 seconds faster than the first and it's fun to watch how the traction control reacts to the changing conditions.

In the final runs you can even see how the traction control is interacting with the flatshift to prevent wheelspin being induced by clutchless upshifts. This makes a real difference when you're driving the car.

If you watch closely, you'll see us putting the car into 1st gear on the start line and we have to release the clutch to start. After that, the only thing we do is flick the downshift paddle once before the hairpin and twice at the end of the straight. No clutch during the run, and all upshifts are completely automatic triggered by rpm. Leaves the driver free to concentrate on brakes, accelerator and steering although as you'll see, sometimes even that's too much for us! Seems like cheating sometimes and explains why the car is earning its nickname 'Robocar'!

David

Yazza54 - 3/1/11 at 08:57 PM

Bike gearboxes manage ok being abused with launch control?

neo2 - 3/1/11 at 10:04 PM

So David on the start line i take your holding a button down there while your flooring the throttle and the electronics are cutting the coils holding the revs at 5000rpm by the looks of it is that right, im also assuming this is a full traction control system as well yes not just launch control, does it have flatshift also ??

What they like to fit and how much etc..

davidloomes - 4/1/11 at 12:16 AM

Thanks for the interest neo2.

You've almost got the launch control right. There's a momentary button we press and release to arm the launch control.. Once armed, this does indeed establish a start line rpm which in our case is 5000rpm or so. Once the car starts moving (one undriven wheel speed sensor required) the rev limit is progressively reduced until engine speed and car speed match at a speed you choose. Then the 2nd phase of launch control allows the engine speed to increase a fixed %age above the car speed until a final speed is reached and the launch control is complete. At this point, if you have traction control enabled (4 wheelspeed sensors required) that takes over.

The basic box does data logging with shift lights, launch and traction control included. The flatshift function is an add on, intended to give full pneumatic semi-auto control of a sequential gearbox.

There's a pile of information on what it does and how it works at http://xoomspeed.com/xoombox/xoombox.htm. If you click on the documentation button, there's full installation and use instructions also. Some will find it easy, others less so, so I'll let you decide. If you check out the downloads page, you can see all the developments in the PC software and firmware over the last couple of years. The PC software you're welcome to download and play with if you like. It'll let you see the info you have to provide to make the various functions work.

If you're interested in the gearshift stuff, then see the Xtra Flat Shift page. It's a closed loop feedback system so much closer to Geartronics than the Flatshifter style systems.

I don't normally like discussing cost on an open internet forum, since it looks too much like spam advertising, but so long as you realise I'll blame it on you if anyone objects, then here goes! The base box, we ask £600 for. Just add wheelspeed sensors - around £25 each - and 4 toggle switches and you have data logging, launch and traction control + shift light drive. The gear box control electronics is priced at £125, but you should realise the pneumatic components add up to rather more than this. To get a copy of what's on my car, including the 5Hz GPS, shift light and gear display, plus pneumatic components to suit your car would add up to a grand total around £1600. It's quite a lot of money, but a RaceTech DL1, Race Logic TC and GearTronics pneumatic system would togehter cost more than 3 times as much and you'd have a lot more boxes to mount. That's why we built the XoomBox. Each of those products is pretty good on its own - I decline to slag any of them off - but we simply couldn't afford all of them.

Strangely - to me at any rate - most of the bike engined sprinters are more interested in the gearshift stuff than the launch and traction, so we're currently working on a standalone version of that. The first boards are currently en route from Singapore and are due to be tested on a 'Busa engined DJ Firehawk. Don't expect to hear any more about that until the middle of the year at least though.

David

Johneturbo - 4/1/11 at 04:59 PM

neo2 what championship are you looking to race in, as not all let you run launch control?

gixermark - 4/1/11 at 06:24 PM

what engine is in that thing David ?? rather rapid !! :-)

davidloomes - 4/1/11 at 07:31 PM

I'll get flamed for saying this here....

It's a 2.0L Vauxhall XE. Puts out 270 bhp at around 8500 rpm. The car weighs something like 510 kg, so yes, scary fast

Now I promise, I'm away to wash my mouth out with old diff oil or something.

David

neo2 - 4/1/11 at 08:24 PM

Thanks david for the information, i will have a good look at whats on offer from you, im already running the paddle shift kit from pro shift (electronic paddle shifter with electric solenoid on engine moving the lever) oppose the the air operated set up, The lauch control was my next step, as i struggle to hold the revs on the start line at what seems to be anything other that total wheelspin off the line or stalling, then the flatshift seemed a good option too, to help save gearbox life mainly to be honest and get some milliseconds...

My championship is fine with LC and more or less anything else lol

neo2 - 4/1/11 at 08:25 PM

Oh and im looking at fitting a turbo Gsxr lump in too

davidloomes - 6/1/11 at 12:55 AM

Now that sounds like fun!

I hope you're not going to try and cut corners on the ecu front. I watched someone up here suffer 2 wrecked 'bussas last year, largely because the guy that built the car tried to control a turbo installation with a stock ecu and add on bits. It's a problem if your waste gate sticks, and there's nothing watching for overboost to protect the engine. The car goes down the straight very fast. Once

I'm sure you know it already, but it's always worth repeating that whilst blown bike engines can produce incredible power, they do need looking after if they're not to turn into err... blown bike engines!.

David