blade electrical fault...HELP

I need some help guys. I have a problem with the electrics on my westy blade. On the way to Northampton on Saturday the car died on me and the result was that the battery was completely flat and so the car wouldnt run. Got sorted out with a new battery and the car ran great for the next 150 miles.

On the way back from the Chester show yesterday the car started to show the same symptoms as Saturday, started to refuse to rev over 6k and then eventually just stopped. Same again battery dead.

I have re charged the new battery now and the car starts no problem, checked to see if the engine is re charging the battery and it is DEFO charging.

Has anyone got any ideas what to look for next?

If your sure the alternator is charging, then this is a strange one. On the blade there are 3 wires from the alternator that go to the regulator. Out of the regulator you should be getting 12-15v charge. Does this voltage increase when you rev the engine ? and have you put an amp meter between the +v out of the regulator and the battery ? this would tell you how much charge the battery is taking.
It is possible that it is charging, but you are using more juice than your putting back in. Was anything else running in the car at the same time, i.e. wipers, heater, headlights, aircon .
I remember W******ld saying they have built several factory built BEC's to order that had heaters, wipers, etc spec'd by the customer. When collected on a rainy day, they drove home with both heater + wipers on. They recieved a few calls from people who had broke down on the M40 due to flat batteries !!.

Hi,

No heaters, wipers or anything else, only thing i used was brake lights and indicators!!! Its showing 14.5 volt from reg to batt?

Does that voltage increase when you rev ?, check out the current its drawing next with the amp meter.

Off into garage in a bit to have a look around and get the multi metre out. you have u2u

HI,

The rectifier looks like the standard blade one. The conenctions look like they are burnt a little, or rusted brown. I have just started the car up and the rectifier gets very very hot, is this norm?

I tested the battery voltage before starting the car: 12v

During engine running: 14.4 v

Tested the connections to the rectifier whilst running: Red wire 3 v
Green 0.01 v
Yellow wire above green 15v
Middle yellow wire 15 v
Yellow wire above red wire 15 v

What do you think?

Hi cashy

The rectifier does get hot, its the main reason they fail cos they cook themselves. Ive put an old Athlon processor heatsink / fan on mine which seems to do the trick and keep it cool

Having never had any electrical gremlins Im not particularly clued up on diagnosing electrics, but Id say the likely cause is the rectifier judging from what others have suffered in the past on the BEC liat. Can you not blag Ryan's one for a test to see if it helps?

cheers

Chris

Hi, Cashy
Sounds like you definatly have a regulator/rectifier problem. Your car is only running properly until the voltage drops below 11 volts, then the battery isn't being recharged and the car struggles. Like Chris says, they get hot and burn themselves out. It is very common with this particular unit. Genuine ones are quite dear to buy, but you can buy a pattern item for about £ 60, which is almost as cheap as a second hand one.
If the connector looks slightly brown in colour, this is another tell tale sign its the reg/rec failing. Change it quick, or you may damage the alternator windings. If you find a new reg/rec dosen't cure the problem you will need to have the alterator rewound. This costs about £ 80.
Hope this helps
cheers
Tim

If it does come to an alternator re-winding then give me a shout cos Ive got a couple of spare windings from the various engines Ive blown up / dismantled

Chris

We've put our Regulator Rectifier on a large aluminium plate - which will act kinda like a heat sink - directly behind the snow cone... and angled the plate in such a way as to catch airflow, thereby cooling the unit.


Makes me wonder where your's is?

Check the fuse housed in the starter relay block.
Mine did exactly trhe same and that was the casue

Thanks for all the replys guys, the rectifier is mounted on a plate of metal already but it does sound liek its been cooked.

There is some brown paste on the back of it when i took it off, is this some type of cooling paste?

quote:

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Originally posted by cashy
Thanks for all the replys guys, the rectifier is mounted on a plate of metal already but it does sound liek its been cooked.

There is some brown paste on the back of it when i took it off, is this some type of cooling paste?

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when i started it up yesterday to test the charge rate the rectifier got untouchable with heat within 4 mins?

Is this normal?

There is also a guy on the Yahoo! forum with the same similar problem and has solved it pretty easily using a regulator with heat sinks on it... is this you?

You may be well advised looking at postings on the yahoo forum too

Link on our website - frontpage!

no not me......i tried the bec list but couldnt find the search function on the yahoo site!!

Cashy the thread start is number

49566

Titled: Blade electrics

Posted: 24th May

By: cashyblade

Well i fitted a Brand new heat sink with fins a few days ago, started the car, everything OK, engine charging battery at 14.5volts.

Went for a 50 mile spin out, got home and it was still charging and battery was at 12v.

I decided to go out today for a spin to Congleton to drop off a roll over bar, i did about 100 miles and then guess what.........

the symptoms came back agian and i was stranded in a layby awaiting the aa again.

The aa guy put some power into the battery and followed me home, managed to get home but it is now refusing to charge the battery when the engine runs.

Has anyone got any ideas???

Do i need to go to a Honda bike dealer to get things checked out?

The rectifier is located on a metal plate, next to the starter relay on the drivers side, attached to the chassis. Will post pic in a moment.

I have though of re mounting the rectifier down near the alli floor and towards the front of the car near the nosecone to help cooling..

It really seems like you have cooked it again... IIUYC the unit is behind the hot engine on a hot day. Sounds like the damage could be done when you've been out for a run and static maybe... no cold airflow at the rear of the engine.

Just my 2p

Is that with a new reg/rec or are you still using the overheated one? The old one sounds beyond hope even with a cooler fitted, it looks like time for a new one.
http://www.speednspares.co.uk/acatalog/Regultaor_Rectifiers.html
£50.00 to you sir.

This is with the BRAND new Honda unit.

this is where its mounted on my westy
Rescued attachment rectifier1small.jpg

pic 2
Rescued attachment rectifier3small.jpg

Just had a root around and found a 30 amp fuse blown inside this relay next to the rectifier (think its starter relay)

Wouldnt this stop it starting?
Rescued attachment fuseblownsmall.jpg

yes

The battery is a new sealed unit which cost £80, was fully charged when i got it and was checke dlast week.

Are you saying your rectifier is mounted where mine is or is it in the nocecone.....

will check all earth leads tomorrow.

adrian

Thats what i though but the cars just started with the fuse out?

That fuse is in between the stator (alternator) and the battery if blown you will not get a charge, the battery more likely had 14.5v when you measured it and 12v later.
That is what happened to me (See the first post on page 2).

[Edited on 16/6/04 by Brooky]

So this could be it then..........................................................................................

Fingers crossed

Another thought, once the fuse is replace check that its charging by warming up the engine and measuring the voltage at idle then blip it to over 8k and see if the voltage rises with the revs - it should do.
u have u2u cashy.

[Edited on 16/6/04 by Brooky]

Is there a possibility that it may be the alternator? There's not much in between the "12 V bus" that is not working and the source of energy: The alternator windings, then the so called "regulator" (buch of chunky power diodes as far as I know) and then the battery. If the battery is new and the last blown rectifier was new, couldn't it be the alternator? For instance, if one phase of the alternator is open, the peak current in the other diodes would increase and may be too much resulting in regulator damage? The regulator parameters are quite marginal nominally and maybe cannot cope with that?

If I was building I would consider bolting 3 big discrete bolt-on diodes to a metal plate in the Locost instead of the expensive uprated regulator, although I'm not sure that the regulator is just 3 diodes in a big heat sink. The reason why an uprated reg is expensive is because heatsinks are expensive, if you already have the capability for heat sinking (because you have big surface anyway) maybe you don't really need to pay for extra sinking.

OK just been into the garage and done some checks:

Engine not running: Battery at 11.5 volts (not charged since breakdown)

STARTED ENGINE:

Started with the 30 amp fuse blown in the starter solenoid????

Battery charging at 12.5 to 14v tested at battery terminal

Checked black wire going to starter solenoid: 12.5 v

Checked rectifier when engine running:

Green wire 0 volts
Red wire 1.38 v
Yellow 1 0.27v
yellow 2 0.24v
yellow 3 0.24v

Rectifier got very hot with only 5 mins running, is this normal?

Adrian

quote:

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Rectifier got very hot with only 5 mins running, is this normal?

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Ok here is some more:

I HAVE REPLACED THE BLOWN FUSE

Followed some instructions from the Haynes manual on testing the system.

Checked the charging system for the leakage rate: ALL OK

Regulator/Rectifier Check: ALL OK

Rectifier now reading:

Yellow 1 6.98volt
Yellow 2 and 3 same at 0.1

Battery is charging at 14v as it only had 11v in it before i started the engine.

Am halfway through wiring a Voltmetre guage which im fitting in the dash to keep an eye on things.

Do you think ive cured the problem?

ps. also fitting a pc fan onto the rectifier

All back together now just need some nice weather to go testing....................

Are we up and running yet cashy ?

Waiting for some dry weather and time off work..........

Sorry to butt in, but I have a similar problem.
Previous rectifier overcharged the battery to bloody hot. Put in new rectifier, charge seems to be about 14 ish volts, but battery reads 13+ volts disconnected. Just drove around the block and battery wont turn the engine to restart.
Tried multimeter in my co. car and read 12v so presumed OK.
Question ....Is the battery f****d
It is almost new and the sides are not bulging?

Just got back from a quick 30 miles test.

Voltmeter guage is showing just over 12v on tickover and rises to 13.5 to 14volt driving along.

So far no problems but the last few times it occured after 100 miles so fingers crossed.

May even drive to PISTONFEST on Sunday.

Adrian

On 75 miles test now, no probs yet.......

yeeehaaaa