Chaz
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| posted on 17/12/06 at 09:11 PM |
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No benchmark!
I've done around 600 miles in my indy now and i'm just starting to get used to how it handles.
But after a bit of tweaking it still doesnt cut it for me. When i drive my celica GT it feels solid, has v.positive steering, sensitive throttle +
brakes and hard ride. This is what i'm comparing my mk to.
This is what i thought my mk would be like. Instead it lists/rolls heavily in comparison in corners, and i still dont totally trust the steering. The
throttle and brakes are not trust worthy either with areas of uneven power application and braking.
Is it just a case of trial and error? I think i just need someone to thrash it round a track and say, this and thats needs doing....did anyone do
this? Otherwise i feel its going to take years to fine tune! Any ideas?
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tom_loughlin
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| posted on 17/12/06 at 09:21 PM |
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yeah, i have exactly the same feeling - I dont really know how exactly I want my GTS to handle, so I dont know what to do....
Id love someone who knws their stuff to hammer it about, and then get it set up, then I can get used to it's proper handling.
My tubby is quicker in a straight line, and to me, handles better, steering is nicer too.
I'm sure the GTS just needs settin up properly, but I don't really know where to get it done.
Going to have a stage2 tune early spring though, so with any luck, the engine will be running better with no flat spots.
Tom
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 17/12/06 at 09:22 PM |
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Sounds like it needs a serious dose of setting up,
What spring rates you got ? 7's don't roll, there like a go kart, this can also affect the braking and acceleration if the wheels are not
in proper contact with the road.
Front & rear tracking probably need looking at too.
edit too add, your celica should feel like a soft yank tank compared too the 7, if you get no better offers and the weather ok have a run over here in
the xmas break, about 40min drive here, 20 back
[Edited on 17/12/06 by Jon Ison]
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dilley
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| posted on 17/12/06 at 09:22 PM |
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I found this with mine, you have to be brave and it will stick like sh!t to a blanket.
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locoboy
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| posted on 17/12/06 at 10:07 PM |
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I think its got a lot to do with Balls!
it feels so different to your standard and very forgiving road car that it somehow feels wrong and unpredictable.
My old F27 was the same and if i had not driven it for a few months i couldn't just get back in the saddle and hammer it, i had to build myself
and my confidence back up again.
There were many regular routes for me that i could have done quicker in my 1.6 focus than in my F27 but that was ME that was holding the car back, if
someone with bigger man parts had got behind the wheel it would have been a one horse race.
Then again had the F27 been my daily driver then the table would have been turned and i would have no licence left lol.
The key is practice and push YOUR limits up to that of the car.
* obviously if there are serious handling issues that can be dialed out with a proper suspension and corner weighting session its a good place to
start!............................
Then you can really begin to hammer the F*ck*r  
[Edited on 17/12/06 by locoboy]
ATB
Locoboy
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oliwb
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| posted on 17/12/06 at 10:27 PM |
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I have to admit that for the first 20 odd miles it seemed odd and took all my concentration to drive the Tiger....now though it handles like nothing
else! I have no problems with the steering the brakes feel fine (if perhaps a little heavy) it literally corners on rails. I had no problem tracking
down a 911 in the twisty's the other day and frequently thrash my dad on his Ducati 999 on the bends. I for one have to say that the cars
abilitles are far, far greater than mine and I've not once ever been able to upset it properly! And its not for lack of trying as IainB will
testify! I'd get it down to your local garage and get them to set it up using a laser (you don't need a fancy race garage or anything to
start with just ask ppl on here about good settings) and then get your local to do it. If it still needs tweeking you might need to spend more! It
should handle like a go-kart out of the box though (even when not setup perfectly!)
Though perhaps this is the zero castor MK wishbones rearing their ugly heads - just wait for the torrent of abuse from MK owners.......
Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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DIY Si
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| posted on 17/12/06 at 10:43 PM |
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When driving my Indy it does dart around more than I would like. This may be due to being a bec, so having a lighter front end, and theoretically
needing more castor. However, this being the only 7 I've ever driven I can't really say what the others are like, but mine could do with
more self centering than it has. Just for the record I have seirra uprights and bones.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 17/12/06 at 11:36 PM |
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HI I echo what chris and JOn have said
any of you who think you have handling issues with your car or it doesnt feel right etc
there is deff something not set up properly on the car like spring settings etc
the brakes push them hard there is no servo do they lock the front wheels??
DIY SI MK INDYS Do not self centre as standard I never found this a problem though?
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mookaloid
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| posted on 17/12/06 at 11:52 PM |
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The Indy does roll a bit - see Chris Masons Avatar below which shows some roll. I suspect that this is more of an issue with a car engine and that the
standard springs are more suited to bike engines.
Image deleted by owner
For Hill Climbing I have uprated my springs by 30 % ish all round which has helped a lot. Also the damper settings can have a marked effect on the
feel of the car. I favour 2-3 clicks off max damping for the track but a couple or 3 less for the road. Backing the dampers right off feels down right
dangerous to me.
My steering was much improved with a quick rack and with getting the tyre pressures right.
What pressures are you running?
Also have you measured your toe in and camber angles? what are they at just now?
Brakes can be much affected by the type of pads you use - they will need a good shove though as there is no servo assistance.
The engine and throttle response is down to engine tuning and set up - is your throttle linkage progressive or set up like an on/off switch?
HTH
Mark
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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mookaloid
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| posted on 17/12/06 at 11:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zxrlocost
MK INDYS Do not self centre as standard
Don't quite know what you mean by this as I can tell you that mine strongly self centres - particularly at speed.
Cheers
Mark
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 18/12/06 at 12:17 AM |
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if they self centred mate people wouldnt have to do all the stuff they do to get them to pass SVA
and I had a recent MK kit
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Hellfire
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| posted on 18/12/06 at 10:10 AM |
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I think the focus on CRM's (Chris Mason) avatar lean is a tad overstated. Those pictures were taken on a track and as such you would expect a
certain amount of lean due to the forces/speed at which those pictures were taken. Having seen Chris on the track, I can vouch for his
'cavalier' (read: balls out) driving attitude. The Indy and all this ilk (no names, no pac-drill) respond very well to minor suspension
changes on track. Our Indy originally was very skittish and unpredictable... Celica's are not well known for their handling are they... years of
soft dampers and cheese springs testify to this. Comparing an MK Indy to any high production car is like comparing chalk and cheese. When the Indy is
correctly set up it will inspire confidence that only a maniac can exploit... you obviously haven't set the car up properly - so do it! You will
find it will do things you thought impossible.
Have you contacted MK for setup advice? They will only give you general figures but anything is better than nothing... as stated, using CRM's
figures are a good benchmark make sure you measure the setup properly as any alteration from them will have a significant effect.
I must add... minor changes to suspension/setup will only be felt on a track with a fully competeant driver, such is the small difference. However, on
a road setup only the major ones will have a noteable effect.
The largest effect on having the car not jump about is front wheel toe-in or toe-out. Having them parallel is the best starting point IMHO.
In the winter is not a good time to test the Indys' capabilities due to low tyre and road temperatures. In the summer, get a good set of tyres
(TOYO's YOKO's etc... sh!t tyres, sh!t handling) and get it on a track and build up confidence... only then will you see what it can
do!
The Indy will outperfrom virtually any production car in handling and performance if setup properly to do so. Though yours is a CEC so maybe not...
Steve
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greggors84
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| posted on 18/12/06 at 10:34 AM |
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When I first threw mine round a roundabout, what I really noticed is how little it rolled. Even with a big boat anchor up front!
The way I had it set up first, it understeered to easy, and it was quite a strange sensation, no body roll and still understeering. I was used to FWD
where you have lots of roll before it lets go.
At the time I my daily driver was a 106 rallye and these dont roll much in corners, so its not like I was used to a 2CV.
Check you spring rates, dont think they are marked so you might have to find somewhere with a machine, unless you can DIY it at home. Then check you
damper settings, as a starting point i set mine to the middle, which is about 6/7 from either end of adjustment.
I wouldnt imagine anything else would be giving you so much body roll in the corners, which is something you need to sort out first.
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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mookaloid
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| posted on 18/12/06 at 12:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
I think the focus on CRM's (Chris Mason) avatar lean is a tad overstated.
Steve
I'm sorry Steve, I only said that Indys roll a bit - perhaps I should have said a 'little'
Anyway here's another shot of an Indy demonstrating a little roll, just to show that Chris isn't the only one who can get an Indy to roll (a
little). 
I hope Tony doesn't mind me 'borrowing' one of his photos for the purposes of illustration. In this picture my car has the uprated
springs.
Incidentally it was largely by studying Tony's excellent pictures of my car on the move that I was able to work out what was happening with the
suspension as a result of the roll and subsequent geometry changes.
Cheers
Mark
 
Rescued attachment _MG_4432.jpg
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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mandbsheldon
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| posted on 18/12/06 at 03:46 PM |
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I can honestly say that my Indy drives superbly well. It seems well balanced and dosn't track at all. I can let go of the wheel, even on the
most uneven roads and It stays as straight as a arrow. The roll could be down to heavy lumps up front with incorrect springs or damper settings.
When it went for SVA I wound out the steering rack to give me toe out (as everybody recommends), this made a massive change to the steering. I now
have them set as straight as possible, not toe in as people recommend and it's fantastic!!
Chaz, I'm only in Nottingham, not far from you if you want to have a look or meet.
Leigh
[Edited on 18/12/06 by mandbsheldon]
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Chaz
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| posted on 19/12/06 at 10:29 AM |
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Wow! Thanks for all your help guys, I'll have a look into all the things you mentioned and see if i can change anything. If i have no joy it
would be nice to take you up on some offers to have a look at my car.
Many Thanks
Chaz
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mandbsheldon
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| posted on 19/12/06 at 10:40 AM |
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No problem. Plenty of spare time over Crimbo!!
Leigh
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 20/12/06 at 08:25 AM |
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Ideally, try and find someone with a well-setup car, and see if they'll take you out for a REALLY quick run. This should give you a clear idea
of what your car should be capable of achieving.
David
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