kentmagpie
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| posted on 26/4/15 at 07:55 PM |
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duratec st170
Hi guys,
I'm currently running the rule over a mk indy with this engine in it running megasquirt ecu roughly hitting 180bhp. I've owned 3 BECs now
and am looking for a change. I don't wanna start an argument over what's better I just want some opinions and advice on what this setup
may be like in comparison?
Thanks in advance
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austin man
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| posted on 26/4/15 at 08:28 PM |
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You will get close to 200 if you fit bigger throttle bodies and injectors ditch the cat etc get it mapped etc. Always a can of worms the BEC vs CEC I
run a 1.8 silvertop on carbs with 2 litre cams thats around the 150 mark plenty for what I need would like ,ore when doing trackdays but cant warrant
the cost
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 26/4/15 at 08:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by austin man
You will get close to 200 if you fit bigger throttle bodies and injectors ditch the cat etc get it mapped etc. Always a can of worms the BEC vs CEC I
run a 1.8 silvertop on carbs with 2 litre cams thats around the 150 mark plenty for what I need would like ,ore when doing trackdays but cant warrant
the cost
Due to the price work would be limited and therefore it'd be left as it is.
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 26/4/15 at 09:04 PM |
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An ST170 is not a Duratec engine it is a Zetec with VVT.
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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austin man
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| posted on 26/4/15 at 09:12 PM |
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you would still get 180 plus with a set up on the Rolling road get a set of bike carbs and use them as Throttle bodies
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 26/4/15 at 09:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
An ST170 is not a Duratec engine it is a Zetec with VVT.
Well picked up I'd never even thought of that, I'll show you two different adverts it's been listed in. The first was the original
sale from last year and the autotrader one is the current ad. I've just realised the current ad dies not say it's an ST170 but the
original does:
http://www.uksportsandprestige.co.uk/used/mk/indy/r-kit-car-great-example/harrogate/north-yorkshire/15489559#
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201504082427554/sort/atcustom/postcode/br60ew/radius/1500/make/MK/model/indy_r/page/1/usedcars
I remembered the car and traced the current sales photos to find the trader that originally sold it to get more info. So where dies the 180 bhp figure
come from? Am I right in saying a Duratec St punched out 150bhp?
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 26/4/15 at 09:20 PM |
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Standard Duratec is 150hp.
That's s real nice car though
[Edited on 26/4/15 by big-vee-twin]
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 26/4/15 at 09:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
Standard Duratec is 150hp.
That's s real nice car though
[Edited on 26/4/15 by big-vee-twin]
Is it possible to squeeze an extra 30hp with just and ecu upgrade? What's the boost button as well? Never heard of this!!
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snapper
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 05:30 AM |
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Proper Duratec has inlet on the left exhaust on the right
You have the ST Zetec in that
Still a good engine and should give 167 bhp in standard form
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 06:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Proper Duratec has inlet on the left exhaust on the right
You have the ST Zetec in that
Still a good engine and should give 167 bhp in standard form
I'm confused as a simple image search on Google for duratec St engine shows a number of engine bays with exactly the same setup as that mk. So
is that suggesting Ford bunged a load of duratec rocker covers on zetec engines?
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threadbare wallet
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 07:08 AM |
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Yes thats exactly what they did,they coukdnt have the performance model to be seen with "last years engine" so badged it as a duratec as
well.its still a zetec but with vvt,not a bad thing just not as light as the " real" duratec.still a lot of gains to be had and a lot lot
cheaper.
Very few things are "really" needed.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 07:11 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kentmagpie
quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Proper Duratec has inlet on the left exhaust on the right
You have the ST Zetec in that
Still a good engine and should give 167 bhp in standard form
I'm confused as a simple image search on Google for duratec St engine shows a number of engine bays with exactly the same setup as that mk. So
is that suggesting Ford bunged a load of duratec rocker covers on zetec engines?
Ford stuck Duratec stickers on virtually every engine they made.
For some inexplicable reason they have tried their hardest to confuse and complicate their engine names. The original Zetec was simple enough, but
then they called the 1.6 Sigma engine a Zetec as well and then they used the Zetec name as a trim level badge. And then they developed the 2.0L/2.3L
Duratec engine, and decided everything had to have a Duratec badge, including rattly old pushrod lumps with throwbacks to the 50's.
The ST170 is based on the iron blocked Zetec-E engine but with a redesigned head that includes variable valve timing. They were rather disappointing
in the Focus, being miles behind the rival cars in terms of performance, but you can extract reasonable power from them. Dave Walker of PPC fame has
written a few decent articles on this - properly controlling the VVC rather than just switching it on and off is very important to get the best out of
them.
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 07:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by threadbare wallet
Yes thats exactly what they did,they coukdnt have the performance model to be seen with "last years engine" so badged it as a duratec as
well.its still a zetec but with vvt,not a bad thing just not as light as the " real" duratec.still a lot of gains to be had and a lot lot
cheaper.
Ok well that's cleared that one up  so has anyone owned a CEC with this setup? Does anyone know how it goes in comparison to a BEC? I
don't want to travel to see it and end up wasting his and my time.
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 07:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by kentmagpie
quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Proper Duratec has inlet on the left exhaust on the right
You have the ST Zetec in that
Still a good engine and should give 167 bhp in standard form
I'm confused as a simple image search on Google for duratec St engine shows a number of engine bays with exactly the same setup as that mk. So
is that suggesting Ford bunged a load of duratec rocker covers on zetec engines?
Ford stuck Duratec stickers on virtually every engine they made.
For some inexplicable reason they have tried their hardest to confuse and complicate their engine names. The original Zetec was simple enough, but
then they called the 1.6 Sigma engine a Zetec as well and then they used the Zetec name as a trim level badge. And then they developed the 2.0L/2.3L
Duratec engine, and decided everything had to have a Duratec badge, including rattly old pushrod lumps with throwbacks to the 50's.
The ST170 is based on the iron blocked Zetec-E engine but with a redesigned head that includes variable valve timing. They were rather disappointing
in the Focus, being miles behind the rival cars in terms of performance, but you can extract reasonable power from them. Dave Walker of PPC fame has
written a few decent articles on this - properly controlling the VVC rather than just switching it on and off is very important to get the best out of
them.
I love the knowledge on this forum
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mcerd1
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 07:51 AM |
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Search for 'ST170' on this forum, you'll find several people that have used them with various ways of controlling them
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scutter
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 07:58 AM |
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I had one before starting the V6 project, They are indeed Zetecs.
 
st engine
Mine ran a raised compression ratio, ported head, 1 3/4" primaries into a 2 1/4" system. GSXR throttle bodies running a Omex 500 ECU.
Made 180hp, torque and power were great but had to make an airbox as I ran the VVC via a switched output from the ECU (only a simple ecu) and when it
switched the intake noise used to get me black flagged for tripping the noise meters at Combe. You can see the rise in torque when the vvc kicks in
at 2700, felt like a real shove on the road and your always above that on track, so it never really upset the car.
 
VVc
To get more from the engine it needed cams(pricey), better ECU for VVc control (also not cheap) and poss a cnc machined head (really expensive).
From reading not many ST170s made 170 in the Focus which is why the car always felt flat.
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 08:23 AM |
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Ford used the name on a few engines the true Duratec is the HE look on Burton Power web site for info
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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coozer
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 10:11 AM |
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Here you go... duratec ST, really a badged zetec E out of a Focus.
This made 166bhp on zx9r carbs, if id bothered to jet them properly it would have made more than:
178bhp on injection. Thousands spent installing injection for an extra 12bhp.. Doh. Like I said if only Id spent the money on setting the carbs up and
buying a decent gearbox... Hindsight....
I simply used the megajolt (carbs) to switch the vvt then the shift light on the Omex. Never bothered with a true controller...
Now its had the vvt removed, the cam fixed and I think its making 206bhp, but its not in my hands now so cannot verify that one.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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snakebelly
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 10:27 AM |
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If you need to control the VVT properly then have a look at:
http://motorsport-electronics.co.uk/st170-vvt-control-cams-delete-vvt-pro.html
HTH
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 11:17 AM |
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This is all new to me as i've been a bec man. So what's people's views of the St running on a megasquirt ecu and the original fuel
injection setup?
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scutter
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 11:29 AM |
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Great engine for the money, if a little limited. Have a read of
Big_Wasa's thread int he fuel injection section.
Regards Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 03:12 PM |
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Thanks for all your input, as always you guys are so reliable for good info
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Dave Bailey
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| posted on 27/4/15 at 04:54 PM |
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I'm running one on a DTA ECU with full cam control... And throttle bodies.... Made just under 180 on the dyno.....
Dave B
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DazBam
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| posted on 30/4/15 at 11:06 AM |
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Iv got an MK Indy running the ST170 2.0 on ZX9R carbs with MegaJolt management. When I got the car it was running a bit rough and over fueling
massively a lot of tweaking and dyno time later, 172.3bhp and running sweet as a nut and seriously moves, keeps up with my mates cbr600! The sound
from the carbs is lovely too!
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kentmagpie
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| posted on 30/4/15 at 11:08 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DazBam
Iv got an MK Indy running the ST170 2.0 on ZX9R carbs with MegaJolt management. When I got the car it was running a bit rough and over fueling
massively a lot of tweaking and dyno time later, 172.3bhp and running sweet as a nut and seriously moves, keeps up with my mates cbr600! The sound
from the carbs is lovely too!
Thanks for that. I'm actually just gonna go and see the car in question
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