Mave
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| posted on 19/6/04 at 06:20 PM |
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MK brakeline kit
Today I wanted to mount my rear (disc) brake calipers. When I tried to connect the caliper to the copper brakelines at the chassis, using the MK
supplied steel braided hose, I found out it was something like 100 mm too short.
The copper brakelines were also supplied, (pre-cut) by MK, so I figured everything simply had to fit together.
I mounted the copper lines as can be seen in the picture below; I can't see how I should have done this differently, considering the lengths of
all "pre-fabbed" lines.
Does anyone know what's wrong, and what I can do to fix the problem (a longer steel braided hose is an expensive option; I expect this one to
work, as it wasn't cheap anyway).
/HPIM0508_medium.jpg)
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mad-butcher
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| posted on 19/6/04 at 07:39 PM |
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don't MK use a short peice of copper off the caliper..... so it would be copper-stainless- copper. but what would I know I had braided made up
wiith banjo's only to find out they leaked on the caliper face
tony
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greggors84
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| posted on 19/6/04 at 08:27 PM |
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What side is too short? From the picture it looks like the T peice could be moved to the left a bit more, if it is the left side that wont reach. We
have just made sure the flexis reach the mounting points from the calipers. Also we got the small lengths of pipes, i though it was for if you were
using drums, i might have a look and see if it would work better with the small peices.
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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Mave
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 07:35 AM |
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I also believe the short ones are for drums. The caliper body moves during braking, so when you use copper-stainless-copper, you cannot fix the short
copper tube, apart from one side in the caliper body. Doesn't seem a logical option.
The problem is on both sides; the steel flexies don't even reach the chassis. In order to let them reach the copper lines, I would have to let
the copperlines end 100 mm out of the chassis; unsupported!
That clearly can't be right.
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Jasalarms
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 08:30 AM |
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Had the same problem as i was using disks, but the kit seemed to be designed for drums.
used a piece of wire to make a good template and had my local accessory shop to make them up ( cheap as chips ), plus a extra pipe for the front as i
am using the sierra load compensating valve to help stop the rears locking up under heavy braking.
I think there is some pics in my archive of brackets that need to be made to support the lines where they join the flexies.
If not im sure someone has some in there photo archive
One other thing those nylon p-clips might fail the sva, as they do not hold and support the pipes good enough, took advice off the other guys here on
the forum, better off with the stainless/rubber type p-clip, as it grabs and holds the pipe firmly.
[Edited on 20/6/04 by Jasalarms]
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Mave
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 03:19 PM |
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Hmmm, how are the rear calipers supposed to be mounted? With handbrake cable coming from the top, or from the bottom? I mounted them just like
Hellfire, with the handbrake-cable coming from the top. Then the brake-flexies are too short. If I mount them the other way around, they are just long
enough.
But then the handbrake-cable will come below the chassis: is that a problem!?!?
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Jasalarms
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 03:46 PM |
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Mave, your calipers are correct, here is a couple of pics for you
[img][/img]
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Jasalarms
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 03:51 PM |
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[img][/img]
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Jasalarms
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 03:53 PM |
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[img][/img]
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Mave
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 06:08 PM |
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Hmm, that might have been very useful, and would have saved me trouble and money.....
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Mave
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| posted on 21/6/04 at 05:24 PM |
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I found this picture in James' archive. Surely this can't be right?!? The copper pipe will flex when you brake! I don't think mister
SVA will approve.
I know that the DAX Rush manual says that the calipers should be the other way 'round, with the brakelines on top, and the handbrake cable coming
from below. Hmmm.
 
Indy Brake Pipe
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greggors84
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| posted on 21/6/04 at 05:43 PM |
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Why will the copper line flex??
Surely the calipers are bolted in place so they wont move?
p.s. thats an ingenious way of catching pop rivets after they have been popped! Intergrated into the clothing aswell! 
[Edited on 21/6/04 by greggors84]
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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Mave
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| posted on 21/6/04 at 06:27 PM |
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the big unit of the caliper moves on the smaller section (black in this picture). So the copper will have to flex to allow the big unit to move.
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James
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 11:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by greggors84
Why will the copper line flex??
Surely the calipers are bolted in place so they wont move?
Greggors,
The calliper carriers are bolted to the hub- the callipers slide along the pistons.
Mave is correct- what's in the picture is not a good way of doing it as the calliper body moves and the copper will have to bend with it.
In the picture the bracket (at which the copper joins the flexi) should ideally be moved away from the upright and onto the bolt that holds the
calliper to the carrier. That way the copper is not flexed.
Having said all this... it's on the assumption that the calliper moves as the brakes are activated. Is this definately the case or do
they only move along the piston as the pad wears.
If it's only as the pad wears then maybe you can get away with the copper flexing only that much. (Which is a bit of a bodge IMHO).
Cheers,
James
[Edited on 22/6/04 by James]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 12:06 PM |
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Ah, the memories come flooding back. We had exactly the same problem and didn't like the unsupported length from the chassis to the caliper. We
got hold of some more brake pipe and routed ours in an unconventional manner. Pictures are in the September / October section of our build diary. 
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Mave
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 03:45 PM |
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Yes Hellfire, I saw your solution earlier (I'm actually using your website as a build manual, as I don't have a paper manual (I do have an
old digital MK manual though, but I believe it hasn't changed yet) but then I thought I was putting the MK brakelines on the right way. (I had
posted earlier about the correct routing).
I think I have three options:
- leave it as it is, and buy new flexis (waste of money; binning two flexis I paid 50 euros for, and spending another 50 for new longer ones).
- mount them the "DAX" way, with handbrake-cable coming from below, and brakelines (and bleeding niple) on top (especially the last
argument sounds very logical). I think the flexis will fit that way. Potential problems; my new Luego supplied handbrake-cable might be too short (as
it is a shortened Sierra cable); so again waste of money, and the handbrake cable comes below chassis (but seems to be no problem for DAX).
- drill out the rivets of the p-clips, have some new copper lines made, and do it the MK-way. (but not looking forward to rattling noises in my
chassis due to remains of drilled rivets).
Any suggestions?
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Hellfire
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 04:04 PM |
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I s'pose it depends on the cost of the alternatives. If you can get your hands on a suitable length of brake pipe and a flaring tool quite
cheaply, this would be the best solution. You could then drill the p-clips out and re-route the brake lines (believe me, you won't hear the
rivets rattling about in your chassis!). You also have the necessary connections, just need longer pipes.
Mounting them the Dax way does have the advantage of not having to remove the caliper to bleed the air out, but might possibly mean a new, longer
handbrake cable than the one you have. Give it a try, the cable you have might just reach.
We have some spare brake pipe and a flaring tool to do the job for you but postage and packing each way might make it unfeasible (but it is another
option)
HTH
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greggors84
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 04:04 PM |
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I went and checked my calipers last night and realised how they moved. I had never really thought about it before and thought that the caliper body
was held with the hub.
Could the bracket for the copper/flexi connection be somehow mounted to the hole where the end of the handbrake cable outer is held.
Any pictures of how the Dax arrangement works? do you need to modify the hubs in anyway. Using the MK method do the calipers need to be removed to
bleed them properly?
[Edited on 22/6/04 by greggors84]
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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Hellfire
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 04:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by greggors84
Using the MK method do the calipers need to be removed to bleed them properly?
[Edited on 22/6/04 by greggors84]
Yes they do - otherwise a potential airpocket is created at the top of the caliper. Not a difficult job tho'
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Mave
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 05:01 PM |
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This is the DAX-way.
Hmm, I think I'll get my drill out...and buy some longer copper brakepipes. After drilling the rivets, I'll drop some epoxy in the holes,
hopefully glueing the remains together, and thereby eliminating every possible chance of rattling.
Thanks again for all reactions.
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greggors84
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 10:54 PM |
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Can that be done by just swapping the calipers round from one side to the other, or is that a stupid question?
P.s. Im sure with all the road noise and engine/transmission noise you wont hear any of the rattling.
[Edited on 22/6/04 by greggors84]
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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James
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| posted on 22/6/04 at 11:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by greggors84
Can that be done by just swapping the calipers round from one side to the other, or is that a stupid question?
P.s. Im sure with all the road noise and engine/transmission noise you wont hear any of the rattling.
[Edited on 22/6/04 by greggors84]
Mave,
Guess you ain't been in many Sevens- I have to agree with Greggor on this- you've got 100 decibels of exhaust about 4 feet from your head.
Then you have wind noise that I would guess at being up to 80decibels. Factor in diff/gearbox whine aswell and rivets will not be audible!
So don't waste time on it!
All the best,
James
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ReMan
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| posted on 2/7/04 at 11:28 PM |
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Sorry to light this thread again but is the conclusion of the MK design here that with a disk rear end the flexi pipes go all the way from chassis to
caliper to allow for sliding motion of caliper?
I hav`nt got my flexi pipes from MK yet so can`t see if they are long enough or not.
Cheers
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Hellfire
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| posted on 3/7/04 at 11:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
Sorry to light this thread again but is the conclusion of the MK design here that with a disk rear end the flexi pipes go all the way from chassis to
caliper to allow for sliding motion of caliper?
I hav`nt got my flexi pipes from MK yet so can`t see if they are long enough or not.
Cheers
as with anything - there is no general conclusion, it's all advice, the choice is yours and what you feel happy with. IIRC the MK flexi's
are 14" long from flange to flange. Consider this when placement of brackets. Our flexi's go straight into the calipers...
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ReMan
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| posted on 3/7/04 at 10:35 PM |
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I like advice, I give it all day long!
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