Guinness
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| posted on 25/4/09 at 10:00 PM |
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Alternative MC for Indy Brakes
Is there an alternative master cylinder that gives better brake feel / action instead of the standard Sierra one?
I'm thinking that the Sierra master cylinder is designed for a (much) heavier car with servo assistance.
Requirements are:-
Must fit through existing hole in bulkhead.
Must be dual circuit.
Must use the same pipe fittings.
Ideally with an integral reservoir.
Oh and cheap!
Cheers
Mike
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coozer
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| posted on 25/4/09 at 10:13 PM |
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Theres some on the Rally Design website but not cheap!
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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StevieB
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| posted on 25/4/09 at 10:15 PM |
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That's exactly what Dave K and Peter said about my car when they drove it at the trackday.
I'm thinking the best option is to remove the sierra m/c, open up the bulkhead where the m/c fits and bolt in a thick ali plate with twin
cylinders so they can be adjusted via a balance bar.
I'm also going to mount a couple of remote reservoirs because the sierra unit is a right PITA top check fluid/top up. Obviously this will be a
post SVA mod as I won;t be fitting a fluid level sensor 
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britishtrident
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| posted on 26/4/09 at 08:23 AM |
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As already the subject of many threads what is needed is a smaller bore mastercylinder from a non-servo equiped car.
As cars without servos but with tandem dual circuit cylinders are rare the choices of donors are limmited.
(1) MK 1 Fiesta --- without srvo (most Mk1 Fiestas had servos.
(2) Mk 3 Cortina 1300 without srvo (most M3 Cortinas had servos)
(3) Early VW Pollo or Golf 1100 without servo
(4) Triumph Spitfire 1500 duak circuit.
(5) Some FX4 Taxi models.
The bolt pattern for these cylinders is different ie the standard no servo pattern.
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 26/4/09 at 08:33 AM |
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As BT said and helped me out. I have the Fiesta Mk.1 but you do need a bit of modifying. I'm not sure you'd get away with replacing
without some kind of faffing.
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Guinness
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| posted on 26/4/09 at 08:45 AM |
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Thanks BT!
I have just checked the Brakes International site. Replacement tandem master cylinder for a Mk1 Fiasco is about £50.
Only trouble is, I'm not sure if that comes with the reservoir. If it doesn't it's a POA part!
The tina items are £150 plus, as are the FX4 items.
Thanks!
Mike
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 26/4/09 at 08:48 AM |
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It doesn't come with reservoir if I remember. I went in and asked them. I think they wanted somewhere in the region of £70-£80 all in.
There's a fella on Ebay sells them for £50. I got mine from him and someone else on here got one too. Old stock but if it doesn't work
he'll take it back.
Edited to add I've just had a quick look and couldn't find any by him.
Something to be aware of with this MC apart from the bolt pattern is the 50/50 split. I had to put a bias valve in the rear line to keep things
balanced. I also had to cut the pushrod down to its very limit and it only just fits because of the angle of my pedal. On the flip side there's
loads of pedal travel now, almost too much but it passed SVA last week so it's fine by me.
[Edited on 26/4/09 by mistergrumpy]
[Edited on 26/4/09 by mistergrumpy]
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 26/4/09 at 09:20 AM |
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i,m looking to do a similar upgrade,look at the fiat uno ones,£19 ish and 19mm dia.
my current master is a mondingo one,25.4mm,is this a jump too far?
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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britishtrident
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| posted on 26/4/09 at 09:25 AM |
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Golf/Polo (non servo 1100 models) pattern 17.46mm dia master cylinders are available cheaply from Euro Car Parts and various other suppliers although
stock levels are running out BUT you have to find a resevoir from the scrappies.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 26/4/09 at 09:27 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
i,m looking to do a similar upgrade,look at the fiat uno ones,£19 ish and 19mm dia.
my current master is a mondingo one,25.4mm,is this a jump too far?
19mm wil be a major improvement
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 26/4/09 at 09:45 AM |
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looks like brakes international will be getting a call...cheers BT
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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Hammerhead
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| posted on 26/4/09 at 10:29 AM |
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i'm using one from caterham (westfield sell the same one) I went for the ap racing aluminium one £180 delivered.
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 26/4/09 at 12:56 PM |
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I made an ali wedge-shaped spacer to fit between the sierra M/C and the bulkhead. This enables you to move the clevis further down the pedal, thus
increasing the pedal ratio. It also makes sure the sierra reservoir is level again. IIRC the angle on the spacer was 12 degrees.
The final overall ratio works out at something roughly similar to a fiesta M/C in the original mounting position.
Cost me nowt, though!
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 14/5/09 at 06:12 AM |
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Well, the cars is back on the road and the brakes have improved vastly by fitting the spacer that increases the pedal ratio. Well worth the effort
IMHO, cheaper then a new M/C and the reservoir top is now also level.
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Guinness
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| posted on 14/5/09 at 06:20 AM |
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Hi Sebastian
Any chance you could post a couple of photos of the wedge??
Also did you make it yourself or get a machine shop to make it? I'd have to get a machine shop to make one for me, which would mean giving them
a drawing / set of dimensions.
Cheers
Mike
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40inches
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| posted on 14/5/09 at 03:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sebastiaan
I made an ali wedge-shaped spacer to fit between the sierra M/C and the bulkhead. This enables you to move the clevis further down the pedal, thus
increasing the pedal ratio.
Did you measure the pedal ratio by any chance?
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 15/5/09 at 05:24 AM |
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Yes, it went from 3 to 4,5. I'll see if I can get some pics this weekend.
The spacer is just a piece of ali cut at a 12 degree angle with a suitable hole in the middle for the M/C to pass through.
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 16/5/09 at 04:54 PM |
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The spacer was cut on the bandsaw at work at a 12 degree angle from a piece of large diameter bar. Then a suitable hole was machined to fit the M/C
through (same diameter as the hole in the bulkhead, don't know the exact measurement. The spacer was then fitted between bulkhead and M/C with
some longer bolts. It could be trimmed down further but I did not bother with that since I wanted to see if it worked first. I was lucky enough that I
had enough spare length in my brake lines to not have to replace them.
Some pics...
 
brake spacer
 
brake spacer 2
 
brake spacer 3
 
brake spacer 4
 
brake spacer 5
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mr henderson
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| posted on 16/5/09 at 05:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sebastiaan
I made an ali wedge-shaped spacer to fit between the sierra M/C and the bulkhead. This enables you to move the clevis further down the pedal, thus
increasing the pedal ratio. It also makes sure the sierra reservoir is level again. IIRC the angle on the spacer was 12 degrees.
The final overall ratio works out at something roughly similar to a fiesta M/C in the original mounting position.
Cost me nowt, though!
I am seriously impressed with this clever bit of lateral thinking.
Well done
John
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 16/5/09 at 06:01 PM |
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Problem: pedal ratio too low.
Solution: move clevis further down.
Execution: tilit M/C.
Simple, really ;-) but thanks for the compliment. 
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Banana
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| posted on 11/10/16 at 03:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
As already the subject of many threads what is needed is a smaller bore mastercylinder from a non-servo equiped car.
As cars without servos but with tandem dual circuit cylinders are rare the choices of donors are limmited.
(1) MK 1 Fiesta --- without srvo (most Mk1 Fiestas had servos.
(2) Mk 3 Cortina 1300 without srvo (most M3 Cortinas had servos)
(3) Early VW Pollo or Golf 1100 without servo
(4) Triumph Spitfire 1500 duak circuit.
(5) Some FX4 Taxi models.
The bolt pattern for these cylinders is different ie the standard no servo pattern.
Can someone confirm which if these will accept the Sierra/MK brake pipes etc?
I'd like to pick the one which requires least faff.
thanks
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rm0rgan
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| posted on 11/10/16 at 06:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sebastiaan
The spacer was cut on the bandsaw at work at a 12 degree angle from a piece of large diameter bar. Then a suitable hole was machined to fit the M/C
through (same diameter as the hole in the bulkhead, don't know the exact measurement. The spacer was then fitted between bulkhead and M/C with
some longer bolts. It could be trimmed down further but I did not bother with that since I wanted to see if it worked first. I was lucky enough that I
had enough spare length in my brake lines to not have to replace them.
Some pics...
brake spacer
brake spacer 2
brake spacer 3
brake spacer 4
brake spacer 5
Spot on! This is my next job....dont suppose you fancy making up a washer for me in return for a beer token! :-)
Sigs are uncool.
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Banana
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| posted on 1/11/16 at 04:16 PM |
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Any pics of how much this moved the clevis down the pedal?
Has anyone else carried this out?
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CosKev3
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| posted on 1/11/16 at 05:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rm0rgan
quote:
Originally posted by sebastiaan
The spacer was cut on the bandsaw at work at a 12 degree angle from a piece of large diameter bar. Then a suitable hole was machined to fit the M/C
through (same diameter as the hole in the bulkhead, don't know the exact measurement. The spacer was then fitted between bulkhead and M/C with
some longer bolts. It could be trimmed down further but I did not bother with that since I wanted to see if it worked first. I was lucky enough that I
had enough spare length in my brake lines to not have to replace them.
Some pics...
Spot on! This is my next job....dont suppose you fancy making up a washer for me in return for a beer token! :-)
m
This thread is 7 years old,might be worth checking if sebastiaan is still using the forum!!!
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