Locost Novice
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 03:24 PM |
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Alternative to welding
Hi, Ive been following this forum for a while but this is my first post. My question is re making the chassis, as I dont have a welder I wondered
about using that Chemical metal because it claims to be as strong as the metal around it. Ive searched on here but not found any info. Also, with
regard to cutting the tubes, would a 9" grinder be ok or would this not really be accurate enough.
Your help would really be appreciated on this one.
Gordon
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JoelP
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 03:32 PM |
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it probably depends on how you used the chemical metal. I dont know much about it but id be amazed if it passed the sva test.
9" grinder is a bit big for accurate cutting, maybe a hacksaw is more suitable?! 
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mark chandler
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 03:42 PM |
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I once had the pleasure of seeing a roll cage joined with chemical metal, the scrutineer took around 3 blows from a sledge hammer to completely
demolish it, that was diagonals, stays front hoop ...
This is not a realistic replacement for welding. It may be okay with static loads but will not last 5 minutes in this application.
I have 9" grinder, 4.5" grinder power hacksaw and plasma cutter, ended up using the humble 12" hacksaw with a decent blade.
Regards Mark
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rayward
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 03:46 PM |
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Hi and welcome,
do you mean you would consider using chemical metal to join the chassis tubes together instead of welding them?,
if this is the case the answer is easy....
NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO don;t even consider it, not in a million years
HTH
Ray
[Edited on 27/8/06 by rayward]
[Edited on 27/8/06 by rayward]
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kb58
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 04:07 PM |
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I agree it's a bad idea, but a test would be good to help convince yourself. Get a small tube of the stuff and "weld" two tubes
together. Now have two identical tubes welded the regular way. Now either hit them with a big hammer or squeeze the joint in a vice. In either
case, the joint should be able to be bent over on itself without failure.
Eventually someone will come out with some stuff that might work, but I suspect the problem will be with preparation. It's similiar to
composite construction. If the chemical mixes, temperature, and surfaces to be joined aren't exactly right, it'll snap right off, as will
this stuff you're describing.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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TimTricker
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 04:30 PM |
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Cable ties are the best. Nothing beats them. MY mate once was missing a few head bolts so we fastend 127 zip ties and it worked.
You cant do better then welding. Do what all the pros do is a good idea to take. Unless something is proven dont do it.
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rayward
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 04:53 PM |
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would probably cost more in chemical metal than you could buy a ready built chassis for anyway
Ray
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Peteff
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 04:59 PM |
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Araldite's good.
JB Weld even has weld in it's name so that must be good as well and I've seen some adverts for wallpaper paste where a man was hung out of
a helicopter pasted to a board, that wasn't you was it?
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 05:25 PM |
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Dont do it
Get a kit and learn the bassics.
[Edited on 27/8/06 by big_wasa]
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joneh
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 05:38 PM |
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My sarcasm-o-meter has hit overload. He's a locost novice! Bet he doesn't post here again after that chunk of sarcasm!
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dilley
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 05:50 PM |
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come on jeremy beedle out you come
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JoelP
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 06:01 PM |
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maybe i answered a little seriously then! I was thinking of being sarcastic but thought he might actually be serious, plus i suppose you
probably could stick a monocoque together with the stuff!
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smart51
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 06:21 PM |
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Glue is fantastic stuff when used right. Glueing metal to metal jsut doesn't seem right. I know that Lotus glues its elises and I have even
seen several chassis in the factory but I still don't believe it.
The only glues I have ever seen that don't break with hand force is PU adhesive on GRP and PVA on wood. The wood breaks before the PVA joint
does on anything I've tested and I'd expect the GRP to go the same way before a good seam of PU.
Metal to metal joints? Solder braze or weld.
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dirty130
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 06:24 PM |
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welding
nothing better than getting burnt by welding. elbows hair and neck are the best. I learnt to weld building my car. I know my welds are good because iv
had to grind them off when iv messed up.
It will fit wheres me hammer?
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iank
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 06:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
Glue is fantastic stuff when used right. Glueing metal to metal jsut doesn't seem right. I know that Lotus glues its elises and I have even
seen several chassis in the factory but I still don't believe it.
The only glues I have ever seen that don't break with hand force is PU adhesive on GRP and PVA on wood. The wood breaks before the PVA joint
does on anything I've tested and I'd expect the GRP to go the same way before a good seam of PU.
Metal to metal joints? Solder braze or weld.
It's possible to get metal glues that are as good, but they are expensive specialist things. They also require lots of surface area, so the end
of a 1" RHS isn't going to do the job.
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Findlay234
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| posted on 28/8/06 at 09:59 AM |
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The lotus chassis is glued where sheet ali meets sheet ali on a large surface area. The glue is just used in copious amounts, thats how they make it
work. Theres also a fair amount of big fat rivets.
As for the locost chassis, i think people think welding is just a glue....
maybe theyll come up with some kinda chemical weld which chemically melts and bonds the join??????
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 28/8/06 at 11:30 AM |
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Thermite wil chemically melt metal.
But it might not be flaming hot enough for you know who.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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Rich_T
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| posted on 28/8/06 at 12:50 PM |
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Chewing gum may be a better alternative, after all, have you ever tried getting it out of a carpet..... It will not move for anything
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coozer
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| posted on 28/8/06 at 06:58 PM |
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The Aston Martin DB9 has a nice glued together chassis.
If its good for them its good for anything, just not for me thank you.
I would ask if brass brazing is an alternative to migging the chassis up?
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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DIY Si
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| posted on 28/8/06 at 07:01 PM |
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Not sure what the technical term is, but cateringvan's are 'brazed' or something similar together. Not sure on the actual term, but
it's not mig in the way most use it.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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iank
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| posted on 28/8/06 at 07:51 PM |
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Bronze welding is the term least likely to evoke a flame war 
Cateringvans are now produced by Caged so mig and/or tig welded. They only changed over from Arch Motors a year or two ago.
A good description of the process is in this book ->
link <-
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stevebubs
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| posted on 28/8/06 at 08:45 PM |
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Not quite true...I hear Arch are still producing the majority of chassis. Take a look for threads on this on blatcaht.
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Findlay234
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| posted on 28/8/06 at 09:53 PM |
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They do already use thermite for welding train tracks together. I guess it oculd be scaled down a bit....
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iank
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| posted on 29/8/06 at 10:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
Not quite true...I hear Arch are still producing the majority of chassis. Take a look for threads on this on blatcaht.
I stand corrected, though I don't read blatchat very often.
Rather different to the press releases put out at the time the deal was announced.
http://www.therollcagepeople.com/news.htm
October 2005 - Caged wins Caterham Cars Chassis contract
yadda yadda
"From March 2006, Caged will manufacture all the current Seven chassis variants from their UK based Wiltshire facility. "
yadda yadda
" Current chassis builder, Arch Motors, will continue to support Caterham’s healthy aftermarket and motorsport car park for the existing
chassis."
yadda yadda
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DIY Si
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| posted on 29/8/06 at 12:03 PM |
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It could just be that caged are having problems with Trevor the welder. He's a robot and may have not been set up right yet?
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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