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Author: Subject: This picture hurts my brain
liam.mccaffrey

posted on 2/3/16 at 07:41 PM Reply With Quote
This picture hurts my brain

I'm an engineer and this picture troubles me, I flip flop between understanding how it works and being baffled

I found this browsing through Kurt Belinskis Midlana site. Its not from Midlana though



[Edited on 2/3/16 by liam.mccaffrey]





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designer

posted on 2/3/16 at 07:52 PM Reply With Quote
It's a method of increasing the stroke of the spring/damper, while staying compact.
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Sam_68

posted on 2/3/16 at 08:07 PM Reply With Quote
Wot Designer said.

This picture of the arrangement from a different angle might help:


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cs3tcr

posted on 2/3/16 at 08:08 PM Reply With Quote


This might make it a little clearer. It's an interesting set-up and seems to work just fine in D-sports.


Edit: Sam beat me to it.

[Edited on 2/3/16 by cs3tcr]

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liam.mccaffrey

posted on 2/3/16 at 08:09 PM Reply With Quote
I like it! Very slick, ive never seen this arrangement before.

[Edited on 2/3/16 by liam.mccaffrey]





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mk7matt

posted on 2/3/16 at 08:12 PM Reply With Quote
Here's how I see it.

As the wishbone moves up in its arc, it pushes up on the bottom of the shock.
The pushrod also pushes up, but against the pivot.
The pivot pushes down on the top of the shock.

Twice as much travel on the shock.





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SCAR

posted on 2/3/16 at 08:17 PM Reply With Quote
Wouldn't the inner joints on the upper wishbone and the shock be much better turned through 90 degrees.
I think continuous movement under load in that plane would see them off really quick

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bi22le

posted on 2/3/16 at 08:18 PM Reply With Quote
Nope, im happy with that.

The suspension goes up, the rod that is attached to the shock at one end and the rocker at the other pushes against the rocker. That rotates the rocker, compressing the spring.

Its just like a normal bell crank but the photo angle dont help.

JeffW F2 indycar front ARB is a good one for this. I think its anti dive and an ARB controller so its 2 functions in one.





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Badger_McLetcher

posted on 2/3/16 at 08:18 PM Reply With Quote
Rocker reverses travel, therefore you end up with two points moving towards each other. Not seen that before, pretty neat!





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MikeRJ

posted on 2/3/16 at 09:27 PM Reply With Quote
The old Ducati 916 used this technique on the rear suspension.
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phelpsa

posted on 2/3/16 at 09:34 PM Reply With Quote
Niklink as used on radicals since the late 90s.


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Texan

posted on 3/3/16 at 04:14 AM Reply With Quote
At first glance it looked as if someone made a mistake & there would be no pivoting action at all. At second glance I see the movement, but it seems like that's a lot of force on that one rod. Would that be a problem?





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r1_pete

posted on 3/3/16 at 08:29 AM Reply With Quote
Most monoshock sports motorcycles use the same principle.
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Oddified

posted on 3/3/16 at 09:04 AM Reply With Quote
It also allows an adjustable none linear motion ratio which is why it's used rather than the 'normal' shock/spring between arm and chassis.

Ian

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prawnabie

posted on 3/3/16 at 12:10 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SCAR
Wouldn't the inner joints on the upper wishbone and the shock be much better turned through 90 degrees.
I think continuous movement under load in that plane would see them off really quick


IIRC (usually wrongly) There is no load on the upper wishbone apart from under braking - it is only there to position the upper ball joint. if you look on a mcpherson strut assembly the upper mounting is the shocker - there can't be much load as the seals wouldn't last long as that's where all the movement under load would be would be.

The only load, as mentioned before, is under braking and maybe from the wheel down towards the inner mounts and the spherical joints are positioned in a way that can accept this.

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SCAR

posted on 3/3/16 at 02:02 PM Reply With Quote
I would think there could be considerable forces on the upper wishbone during cornering. As the tyre grips the road the lower wishbone mount would act as a pivot point for the hub carrier subjecting the upper wishbone to either compression (inside wheel) or tension (outside wheel) loads. No idea of the magnitude though.

[Edited on 3/3/16 by SCAR]

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prawnabie

posted on 3/3/16 at 02:09 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SCAR
I would think there could be considerable forces on the upper wishbone during cornering. As the tyre grips the road the lower wishbone mount would act as a pivot point for the hub carrier subjecting the upper wishbone to either compression (inside wheel) or tension (outside wheel) loads. No idea of the magnitude though.

[Edited on 3/3/16 by SCAR]


Yeah I did mention that in the last line of my post.

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Sam_68

posted on 3/3/16 at 02:26 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SCAR
I would think there could be considerable forces on the upper wishbone during cornering. As the tyre grips the road the lower wishbone mount would act as a pivot point for the hub carrier subjecting the upper wishbone to either compression (inside wheel) or tension (outside wheel) loads. No idea of the magnitude though.



Magnitude is going to be whatever the cornering force is (slightly over 1g at most for a non-aero car) x corner weight x % weight transfer x whatever leverage you have between the tyre contact patch and the lower ball joint.

... but that's only until you clip a kerb. I'd allow 4g for kerbs.

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Angel Acevedo

posted on 4/3/16 at 01:14 AM Reply With Quote
An example of this suspension is detailed either on Milliken/Millike Race Car Dynamics or Competition Car Suspension by... ??? can´t recall now.

It is used to increase damper range of movement with very small wheel travel set-ups.





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scutter

posted on 4/3/16 at 03:49 PM Reply With Quote
Those are cool, From my work

c17 undercarriage
c17 undercarriage


The left hand wheel ends up at the front of the wheel pod and at 90 deg to the centreline of the aircraft. It's also a double wishbone suspension, but to allow the verticalpost to come into the pod the side of the aircraft moves out of the way. 1 1.5" dia actuator moves everything including the doors.







The less I worked, the more i liked it.

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sam919

posted on 17/4/16 at 02:56 AM Reply With Quote
Engineer being a loose term then?
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liam.mccaffrey

posted on 17/4/16 at 07:02 PM Reply With Quote
Go on then I'll bite I can't help myself, I suppose you're fully qualified to critique what an "engineer" should find interesting? Are you chartered then or a fellow maybe?

quote:
Originally posted by sam919
Engineer being a loose term then?






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