phelpsa
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| posted on 29/6/10 at 02:49 PM |
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Anyone who has taken part in motorsport regularly will have met a variety of scrutineers. Some will let most things pass, some will pick up on things
but let you run, some will stop you running on ANY technicality.
A scrutineer can stop you running for anything that IN HIS VIEW is an MSA regulation infringement.
You can argue till you're blue in the face that a cage is safe, and in all likelihood it is, but unless you can point to the specific
regulations you are running the rollcage under in the Blue Book or an FIA standard number then the scrut has every right to stop you running. The
point is that a badly designed cage can cause more damage than good.
I've seen a person stopped from running at a hillclimb because they were running a non-FIA approved, non MSA regulation roll cage in a class
where a rollcage isn't required. Fair? Maybe not if the rollcage is safe. Necessary? Definitely if the rollcage could cause more damage in the
event of an accident.
They can say 'that cage could be designed such that the bend in the tube could be removed, therefore you can't run'.
Its not your interpretation of the rules that matter at the end of the day.
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phelpsa
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| posted on 29/6/10 at 02:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Therefore a rollcage that complies with the Blue book (the MSA regulations) is instantly approved by the MSA/FIA as its their own guidelines. If this
was not the case the Bluebook would be redundant and pointless.
They are individual processes. The FIA test cages and give approval certificates. The MSA say 'we will accept the FIA approval, or a cage to
these regulations in the blue book'. A cage to the MSA regulations won't necessarily meet the FIA standards in a test.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 29/6/10 at 03:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
They are individual processes. The FIA test cages and give approval certificates. The MSA say 'we will accept the FIA approval, or a cage to
these regulations in the blue book'. A cage to the MSA regulations won't necessarily meet the FIA standards in a test.
Oh I completely understand that, I was simply saying that you can race with an FIA approved cage OR a cage designed within the guidance in the Blue
Book. Regardardless of FIA/MSA/ROPS, the blue book regs are guidelines that if followed will result in a compliant cage that a scrutineer will have no
reason not allow to race.
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procomp
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| posted on 29/6/10 at 06:22 PM |
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Hi
The suggestion that i am in some way trying to promote my own rollcage design. Clearly shows yet more lack of understanding.
My fully certificated cage is only legal for fitment to certain cars and chassis design. And that does not include either the MK or the MNR.
This was a debate regarding rollcages. As it happens i do have quite a bit of knowledge regarding this subject because i have been through the process
of full FIA certification and because i attend the FIA/MSA safety meetings regarding ROPS. During those meetings it is explained quite specifically as
to what the FIA/MSA will and will not accept.
Now what really does get my goat is when people spend 15+K building a car to compete under FIA/MSA regulations and when they turn up for there first
meeting they are told that the car does not comply with the very basic regulations laid out in the blue book. Just how do you think those people feel
when they find out that there supplier of rollcage or manufacturer of there car has ignored all the basic info that is available and told the customer
Ahh it OK we have done it that way before it's ok. !!! Yep thats right there are quite a few people who have turned up to race and been refused
a scruitenering pass due to the BS and products they have been supplied. Ask your self how you would feel after laying out 15+k on a motor to then
find yourself in that position. ?
So you will have to excuse me if you feel that way about my input to the debate. All i am doing is giving out what the FIA/MSA have said is and is not
acceptable for use under FIA/MSA regulations. I have been quite clear regarding rollcages that comply to the drawing in the book and rollcages that do
not and require full FIA testing. I don't see where you can get confused along those lines.
Cheers Matt
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mogman1969
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| posted on 8/10/10 at 04:02 AM |
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roll cages
dumb question time .......is it a legal requirement to actualy have a role cage ........
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 8/10/10 at 07:07 AM |
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no
My Build Thread
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mogman1969
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| posted on 8/10/10 at 06:45 PM |
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re no
hooooray
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loggyboy
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| posted on 24/10/10 at 08:34 PM |
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but bloody stupid not to have at least a rollbar!
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MikeR
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| posted on 24/10/10 at 09:16 PM |
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How many MGF / Midgets etc have roll bars?
(i didn't include the MGF / MX5 as the bonded windscreen will provide some (no idea if its chocolate teapot of actually hold the car level) of
support.
Me, i'm building a roll bar.
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mogman1969
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| posted on 25/10/10 at 01:41 AM |
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1275 cc single carb 145 x 14 inch tires and 22 years of driving ..........unlikely to roll the damn thing
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cfc999
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| posted on 21/11/11 at 01:38 PM |
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Roll Cage
Just thought I'd post a few pics of my Sylva Striker's new cage fabricated by Protection and Performance near Barnoldswick in Lancashire.
 
Description
 
Description
 
Description
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kb58
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| posted on 19/7/12 at 01:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
... why not start with the roll cage , then make the chassis to it ?
That's what I did for my mid-engine setup:
[Edited on 7/19/12 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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