craig1410
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| posted on 30/8/03 at 08:32 PM |
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Hi Joao,
Yes I am measuring from tyre c/l to tyre c/l using Capri Laser 13" wheels with 185 width tyres. I think these wheels have an ET18 offset.
As for brakes I am using the standard disc brakes from a Sierra with the Lobro style shafts. The suspension is off the car at present as I am
triangulating the chassis but I can measure between the mounting plates onto which the hub carriers bolt if that would be useful. I don't have a
backplate as such with the disc brakes. Let me know what you want, I can even take a picture to clarify what I have measured.
Cheers,
Craig.
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jcduroc
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| posted on 30/8/03 at 08:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by James
There's loads of hassle in changing to IRS once you've got a built chassis: suspension mounts need to change, wishbones need mounting
somehow, you need to make uprights, diff mounts... it goes on and on!
James
I think that you must make up your mind before building the chassis: Live Axle, DeDion or IRS.
The chassis rear end is (or should be) COMPLETELY different in either case.
Cheers
Joćo Matoso
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jcduroc
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| posted on 30/8/03 at 08:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Hi Joao,
Yes I am measuring from tyre c/l to tyre c/l using Capri Laser 13" wheels with 185 width tyres. I think these wheels have an ET18 offset.
As for brakes I am using the standard disc brakes from a Sierra with the Lobro style shafts. The suspension is off the car at present as I am
triangulating the chassis but I can measure between the mounting plates onto which the hub carriers bolt if that would be useful. I don't have a
backplate as such with the disc brakes. Let me know what you want, I can even take a picture to clarify what I have measured.
Cheers,
Craig.
Thanks Craig
In a Sierra w/ rear drum brakes I measured 1530mm between mounting faces (the surface of the drums).
As you state the Sierra rear track is 1468mm and the Laser wheels are ET18 that would make a rear track of 1494 (1530-2x18).
Am I going wrong here?
Cheers
Joćo Matoso
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craig1410
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| posted on 30/8/03 at 08:53 PM |
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Joao,
I'd have to disagree with that statement as I have a standard book chassis (actually 4 " wider as per McSorely 7+4 plans) and I have
fitted de-dion with only voluntary changes made to cater for the fact that the de-dion kit was designed for a standard width chassis and hence I had
to mount my trailing arms inboard instead of outboard of the chassis.
In my view you can fit de-dion to a book chassis with no changes at all although obviously it depends on the nature of the de-dion axle in question. I
think GTS racing are designing a de-dion kit which is specifically designed to fit easily to a virtually standard chassis.
Let me know if you want further details.
Cheers,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 30/8/03 at 09:00 PM |
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Joao,
I make 1468+18x2 to be 1504mm which doesn't quite match your 1530 figure but is closer. I guess it might depend whether the suspension was in
droop or compression to get the exact figure. I set mine to 57.8" with the suspension at ride height (shafts parallel to the ground) and I have
equal "plunge" each way when I grab the driveshaft and push and pull it towards and away from the diff which should avoid any bind up of
the lobro joints. I didn't measure the track with pinpoint accuracy so take my figures as +/- 5mm.
Hopefully this will explain it a bit.
Cheers,
Craig.
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craig1410
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| posted on 30/8/03 at 09:09 PM |
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Joao,
I've sent you an email to your hotmail address with some further information.
Cheers,
Craig.
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jcduroc
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| posted on 30/8/03 at 10:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jcduroc
I think that you must make up your mind before building the chassis: Live Axle, DeDion or IRS.
The chassis rear end is (or should be) COMPLETELY different in either case.
OK Craig
You can of course adapt the "book" chassis or McSorley's +4 to a DeDion rear axle.
What I meant was that, especially for an IRS, we must think of it before going building a book chassis.
By the way, thankx for the files.
Cheers
Joćo Matoso
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ned
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 08:46 AM |
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The dedion system sounds interesting but I would still prefer IRS. It's just whether I can justify the extra time/money it will take!
Ned.
ps I've now got my chassis:
beware, I've got yellow skin
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James
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 12:13 PM |
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Now that's a man who needs some shelves! 
Also, why is your chassis made of chocolate? Will this not cause problems in the summer? Or is it filled with a cunning lattice
'honeycome' substance (Crunchy Bar) that will re-inforce it?
James
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ned
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 12:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by James
Also, why is your chassis made of chocolate? Will this not cause problems in the summer?
James
it's incase i get hungry and am in too much of a rush to stop for lunch!
Ned.
ps i thought yours looked similar until you decided to paint it!
beware, I've got yellow skin
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timf
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 01:42 PM |
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i thought james liiked like that because he left it on the garage floor that got flooded.
ps is that called the iron oxide finish and is it difficult to achive an even coating
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 01:51 PM |
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Looks like an Al Quaeda attack 
You need to make some space so you can do some serious work. Arnt single garages wondeful!
atb
steve
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ned
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 02:37 PM |
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oh, i see! so you lot thought it was a single garage! ha harr.
its only a 6'x8' (extended to 12' shed!
I'm hoping to do the welding outside if the weather's good enough or move it to my mates lockup where I'll be renting some space
shortly.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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James
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 04:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by timf
i thought james liiked like that because he left it on the garage floor that got flooded.
Mines 18months old and has had 2 dunkings in water and doesn't look that rusty!
Amazing the effect 'treated' steel can have!
Cheers,
James
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ned
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 04:24 PM |
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to be honest is does look a lot worse in the pic than it actually does.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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type 907
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 07:06 PM |
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Hi
Couldn't resist asking this.
What's "Iron oxide"?
 
Rescued attachment chassis 037s.jpg
Too much is just enough
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timf
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| posted on 2/9/03 at 12:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by type 907
Hi
Couldn't resist asking this.
What's "Iron oxide"?
couldn't resist answering
Really
Useless
Surface
Tarnish
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Peteff
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| posted on 2/9/03 at 03:00 PM |
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In my view you can fit de-dion to a book chassis with no changes at all
Craig, if you put de dion in an unmodified book chassis the diff will fall out, you will at least need brackets for it as it needs to be attached
somewhere..
yours, Pete.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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ned
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| posted on 2/9/03 at 03:55 PM |
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Going back to the topic of the thread, I've just got off the phone to mk who can supply me an mk indy rear wishbone set and a pair of their indy
rear uprights for £200. I know the indy runs full width sierra track, but presumably all I need do is to mount the inner wishbone mounts further in?
Then exchange driveshafts from luego and I have an IRS system of new parts for £250!
beware, I've got yellow skin
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craig1410
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| posted on 2/9/03 at 07:47 PM |
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Lol Peteff!
I wondered why that kept happening...
Yes there's always a smart arse out there isn't there 
Fair point, you do need some changes but I have had to make more changes because of my engine choice than because of the de-dion axle by far! If my
axle had been designed for the +4" chassis then the only changes would have been the diff brackets and (you know I can't think of anything
else to be honest)
According to the plans I have for the de-dion system, you are supposed to make a small change to make more room for the de-dion axle assembly but I
didn't need to do it so I didn't. Hopefully I won't find out later that I should have done but in any event it is a minor change to
RU1 and RU2 so I can retrospectively change it if necessary.
If someone out there (GTS Racing hopefully) were to start building de-dion kits then I firmly believe that you could build a car more easily and more
quickly than you could with a live axle. For starters you wouldn't need to track down a suitable live axle donor and you wouldn't need to
strip it in order to weld the brackets on. It should literally involve nothing more than bolting it all in place via the 5 links and fitting the drive
components.
Cheers,
Craig.
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Northy
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| posted on 2/9/03 at 09:07 PM |
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Ned,
Whats wrong with Sierra width?
Cheers
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing! 
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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ned
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| posted on 3/9/03 at 08:55 AM |
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Northy,
I already have a set of book front wishbones plus all joints and uprights.
If the rear track were to be that much wider (sierra) I expect it may upset the handling characteristics of the car/suspension geometry.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 3/9/03 at 09:43 AM |
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a lot of cars run a narrower width at the front - like 10 - 20mm.
Dunno what the effect is if exaggerated.......but you miht look like a dragster!
atb
steve
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ned
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| posted on 3/9/03 at 11:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
but you miht look like a dragster!
steve
thanks for that steve, very enlightening!
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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craig1410
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| posted on 3/9/03 at 08:51 PM |
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Look at the Lamborghini supercars (Diablo especially) They are massively wider at the back and it doesn't seem to affect them. It might catch
you out when driving through the gates into your driveway though...
THinking about it, I can think of a good number of supercars which at least appear much wider at the back.
Ned, I was once given some advice by an experienced kit car builder who told me not to compromise and if I made a mistake then fix the mistake
don't try to incorporate it into the design. Maybe you should sell on the wishbones and get some MK Indy ones or something and go with Sierra
uprights etc. There are many advantages in doing this so you should maybe consider it at least.
Cheers,
Craig.
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