Rorty
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| posted on 10/1/03 at 02:59 AM |
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If you want a really cheap alternative that does actually work and rotate as bushes are supposed to, turn them out of Oak or Beech.
In the last war, in the desert campaigns, both pistons and suspension bushes were occasionally made from wood (but for different reasons). The wooden
bushes would not allow the ingress of sand, which would chop out the crude rubber ones. Lignum Vitae was the wood of choice (South American timber,
densist timber known, doesn't float), but many species were used.
I've seen wooden bushes in use, and they worked perfectly. If you can get your hands on some old lawn bowls, they were made from Lignum Vitae .
Otherwise go for Oak or beech, stand them in oil for a week, and Bob's your mother's brother.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 10/1/03 at 10:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
If you want a really cheap alternative that does actually work and rotate as bushes are supposed to, turn them out of Oak or Beech.
In the last war, in the desert campaigns, both pistons and suspension bushes were occasionally made from wood (but for different reasons).
Some people still havn't forgotten the art. Not so long ago a mate of mine bought a Jag from the auctions. ran well for a couple of months & then
started smoking with a vengence. Took the top of & found 6 wooden pistons topped with tin plate.
just proves that theres's technicians & ----well!
------------------------------------------------------
Just to try & reinforce What syd just said, there was a case about a year ago of a man who restored a P5b rover coupe. He did a lovely job & it got in
to one of the national restorer mags. He said that he had not done anything to it that the average man in the street could not do & that he did it
himself. He even split the Rostyle rims down to ring & plate to restore them.
Fact - He ran a prototype Engineering workshop.
Fact - He got his his staff to do most of the work when they were not busy with orders.
Fact - How many competent Mechanics have the skill & competency to split a steel rim to it component parts & rebuild without making the unit
dangerous/unuseable.
I Am a technician & I would not strip a rim, personally I applaud all fellow members of this group who are building cars without the technical
background that I have. It takes a lot of self esteem to build something that others are going to inspect & condem or praise with little regard for
the skills of the person that built it.
Well done to ALL that have built & passed SVA/MOT. Let those be an example to the rest of us.
Enjoy
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philgregson
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| posted on 10/1/03 at 11:25 AM |
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The metalastic bushes we all use (if we use metalastic) are herald/spitfire wishbone bushes.
How were they utilised in the original application? - with the crush tube gripped or allowed to pivot and lubricated?
This should dictate how we use them - as they were originally designed to be used.
I dont see much of a problem with using them with the crush tube gripped if that is the correct way (and I think it probably is) - the front
suspension of a locost is stiff and has very short travel anyway. I'm lead to believe that this is how we get away with a less than optimum
design.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Phil.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 10/1/03 at 11:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by philgregson
The metalastic bushes we all use (if we use metalastic) are herald/spitfire wishbone bushes.
How were they utilised in the original application? - with the crush tube gripped or allowed to pivot and lubricated?
I can only quote from the West field manual (to which we have some similarity  )
They suggest leaving them to rotate for a hundred miles or so, until everything is settled and the favoured ride-height is set. Then the bolts are
torqued up to 30ft/lbs, locking the centre bit.
Personally I think it's a bit irrelevant as the centre tube has so little surface area at its end that it will rotate if it really wants to -
although I guess that the end of the rubber must be clamped as well, a bit.
rgds,
David
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kingr
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| posted on 10/1/03 at 02:26 PM |
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While I agree with Syd Bridges philosophy of if it works and is safe, use it, I feel that often many of us will not know whether something is safe
until it breaks. Using something in the way it was designed by skilled engineers creates fewer unknowns, especially when there's no obvious advantage
to using it in any other way. Just because you haven't heard of someone that has died/been seriously injured driving a locost doesn't mean they're
automatically safe.
While I reconize the incredible influence that "the book" has had, I do feel that by trying to conform to such a strict budget, corners may have
been cut, and it encourages others to do so too. What I think all of us should bear in mind is just what it is that we are undertaking, we are
building a high performance vehicle, which is not something that should be taken lightly. I don't intend to cause a flame war, I'm just putting
accross my philosophy of safety above cost.
Make sure your chassis and suspension is strong, make sure your steering and brakes are effective and build from there. I'll leave you to make
whatever conclussions you like about bushings
Kingr
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Alan B
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| posted on 10/1/03 at 02:33 PM |
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Syd,
I can't speak for Rorty, but IMO the bit that causes the cringe factor is not the principle, which is fine, but the application.
Regular bolts aren't very good for pivots, that's why the poly bushes have sleeves to pivot on.
An untightened bolt is not good either, even with a locknut as it can rotate freely and you would have no guarantee that the bushing was rotating on
the bolt.....the bolt could be turning in the bracket...making itself a nice little groove.
So in princple a rotating bush on a pivot is fine...it just needs engineering properly.
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johnston
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| posted on 10/1/03 at 07:39 PM |
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dont bout in england but over here in n. ireland if the bush was to pivot on the bolt and not twist the rubber you'd go home with out a
certificate
not sayin its not good enough just that the poers at be wouldnt accept it
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 10/1/03 at 11:09 PM |
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And for those of you not in the know, a METRIC bolt WILL have its grade of hardness/tensile strength marked on it as in 8.8, 10.2, 11.4, etc. This
also makes it easy to spot the difference between an imperial nut/bolt and a metric nut/bolt.
Enjoy.
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Alan B
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| posted on 10/1/03 at 11:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by johnston
dont bout in england but over here in n. ireland if the bush was to pivot on the bolt and not twist the rubber you'd go home with out a
certificate
not sayin its not good enough just that the poers at be wouldnt accept it
And therein could lie a problem.
No doubt in my mind that testers job is follow set down guidelines and use judgement in grey areas. It is not their job to evaluate a different or
unconventional design or unusal application of existing parts...as sound as the engineering may be.
They see a metalastic bush and look for clamping....or so it appears from feedback do far.
Any comment for those more familiar with SVA/MOT requirements.?
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Rorty
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| posted on 11/1/03 at 09:00 AM |
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Syd Bridge:
quote:
If there is a sound engineering reason why my previous comments regarding bush installation is unsafe, then he should bring it to our notice
now.
I thought the use and purpose of what I described was self evident and common sense, but I'll offer further opinion.
Any bush with a crush tube is designed to be fitted with the inner tube gripped tightly. There are no ifs, buts or maybes, they are meant to be locked
up solid.
How someone chooses to fit and abuse them is another matter.
The crush tubes, to the best of my knowledge, are mild steel, and are of a nominal diameter. A metal to metal bush would be made from alloy steel, and
the ID would be reamed to a precision fit. Merely slapping some grease around a bit of mild steel tube will not stop it wearing. Even if the bolt is a
12.9, the movement of the bush will not only destroy itself, but will oval the mounting holes in the brackets too.
That will result in a situation that not only belies the purpose of a sportscar, ie to have precise handling, but will also be bloody dangerous.
If you're just going to let the crush tube rotate on the bolt, why bother with the metalastic bushes in the first place, why not just run the bare
wishbones on the bolts with a smear of grease? At least the handling would be a little better, well, until the grease ran dry!
quote:
This method was used quite safely on car suspension systems well before Rorty was born, and is still used on trucks, so can't be too dangerous.
Metal to metal bearings have been around in one form or another since shortly after the wheel was invented. They were for extremely low speeds, and
were frequently of colossal proportions. More recently, trucks and heavy machinery have benefited from the passage of time, and use precision made
steel to bronze, or even steel to steel as
previously described. They are also of larger bearing area than the lowly Locust 8mm bolt!
Syd again:
quote:
While I'm here, how many degrees of steering movement left and right does this setup have? I haven't found a rodend with more than 13degrees either
way(give or take a degree), and most road cars are designed with 30-40degrees of steering movement in either direction.
If you're refering to the orientation of the rod ends in my uprights, they are capable of 38 degrees angularity. As stated, I modify standard 5/8"
rodends (most manufacturers' 5/8 rodends have the highest capabilities as standard).
I also stated I didn't recomend this approach, due to the relatively high cost of modification, but rather to orientate the rodends vertically, or
just use Transit trackrod ends.
Syd again:
quote:
I thought the aim of this forum was to help each other build roadgoing sportscars that were primarily economical and safe, and not marvels of the
professional competition car builder
I have offered nothing but help and advice, in this and other threads. The sentiment was to offer a cheap, light weight, easily made alternative to
the Cortina/Sierra upright which would also address some other people's desires to fit non standard wheels with incorrect offsets, and also offer a
simple method of quickening the steering without having to resort to expensive aftermarket racks.
The suspension components I use are not marvels, but are the same as are available to everyone else, from motor factors around the world.
Philgregson:
quote:
The metalastic bushes we all use (if we use metalastic) are herald/spitfire wishbone bushes.
See above.
David Jenkins:
quote:
They suggest leaving them to rotate for a hundred miles or so, until everything is settled and the favoured ride-height is set. Then the bolts are
torqued up to 30ft/lbs, locking the centre bit.
I would probably recomend leaving the bolts loose untill you get two people in the car, and push it up and down the driveway a couple of times, and
then pinching them up. After a hundred miles or so, a fair bit of wear could be caused.
I'm very surprised at them saying that.
Syd Bridge:
quote:
Industrial rodends were not designed to be used for automotive use, but do the job very well, and similarly other parts that we all use.
Define industrial and automotive rodends? You browse through the bearing catalogues, and pick out the ones that are rated for the job in hand!
Kingr:
quote:
What I think all of us should bear in mind is just what it is that we are undertaking, we are building a high performance vehicle, which is not
something that should be taken lightly.
Why not? It's only worth 250 quid. So what if the car kills someone!
AlanB:
quote:
Regular bolts aren't very good for pivots, that's why the poly bushes have sleeves to pivot on. An untightened bolt is not good either, even with a
locknut as it can rotate freely and you would have no guarantee that the bushing was rotating on the bolt.....the bolt could be turning in the
bracket...making itself a nice little groove.
So in princple a rotating bush on a pivot is fine...it just needs engineering properly.
Quite.
Syd Bridge, what a load of ambiguous clap trap, AND you've totally missed AlanB's point.
To finish it all off, you state:
quote:
I can't think of any more at this point. So, between you all, a solution has been hatched for a long time problem, which has probably been solved
similarly somewhere else in the past!
How pompous...how contrite....and a solution has not been hatched, you have totally pointed people in the wrong direction!
Syd, if your post is a wee take, or a retort following on from my "turps in the engine" dig, then please accept my appologies. Otherwise M8,
you're.............
Johston:
quote:
dont bout in england but over here in n. ireland if the bush was to pivot on the bolt and not twist the rubber you'd go home with out a certificate
See, the Irish aren't stupid!
Where's my whiskey? 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 11/1/03 at 11:42 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan B
quote:
Originally posted by johnston
dont bout in england but over here in n. ireland if the bush was to pivot on the bolt and not twist the rubber you'd go home with out a
certificate
not sayin its not good enough just that the poers at be wouldnt accept it
And therein could lie a problem.
No doubt in my mind that testers job is follow set down guidelines and use judgement in grey areas. It is not their job to evaluate a different or
unconventional design or unusal application of existing parts...as sound as the engineering may be.
They see a metalastic bush and look for clamping....or so it appears from feedback do far.
Any comment for those more familiar with SVA/MOT requirements.?
Hmmmmmmm. Alan You really don't want to go down that road & open another can of worms do you?
OK then (this is my opinion & you must remember that it is in GENERAL terms only.) 4wotitsworth I am one of those MOT testers & have been for 7 years
approx. I am also the MOT QC for the depot at which I work (big clue - just AAsk).
From an MOT point of view I cannot think off hand of any reason for failing a suspension joint rubber bush for moving on its mounting. Unless the
movement was so great that it was liable to cause the vehicle loose control or be uncontrolable. To whit; eg Ford Mondeo front lower arms, inner front
& rear bushes cracked & badly split from their bondings. ( A VERY GREY AREA, TRUST ME).
The VI stance allways has been that these are PASS & ADSVISE, why because the arm cannot go any where because it has a large bolt & metal bush through
it which means that the arm cannot come out, there-by control, albeit poor will be maintained.
The big thing with MOT testing standards is that (In My Opinion) the were designed around a vehicle that was built in 1914 and very little account has
been taken for the development of cars since. could you imagine driving down your local dual carriage way/motorway/autobahn/freeway at speed in excess
of 50/60/70/80/90/100/110/120/130/mph in a 1914 whatever mobile. Most definately not but the general public still accept their annual mot certifcate
as a total overhaul/service/inspectionroad worthyness certificate for the next 12 months. Mind you I believe that in Aus the test is only required
when you sell the car!.
Anyway everyone, Yes the book does have inumerable short commings and suspension is a very important factor, just as much as the brakes and judging by
the standard of driving around the Rushden Race Track (steve will Know what I mean) the Idoits/driver behind the wheel. Remmeber its not the car that
kills but who is doing what when the incident happens.
As for bushes MOST people who get behind the wheel of a car would not notice / appreciate / benefit from changes to the types of bushes used AND for
the most part the metalastic bushes will be Quite Addeqate for thew job in hand. unless of course you drive like hicost. Then its horses for
courses.
Enough said Lets all be friends & HELP each other.
Enjoy
If I've upset anyone Im sorry & all spelling /grama mystooks r itensional
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johnston
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| posted on 11/1/03 at 08:27 PM |
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no offence jolly but ive worked on cars that have come over the water with english mots
and if you took it to a northern irish one it would have a list as long as your arm
if rorty has left to oz within the last ten or so years he'll bac this up every mot is like a sva
only the guy doin the check is usually bored in a foul mood pissed off gettin muck fallin on his head and doin 12 hour shifts all for shite money
i have seen them fail brand new tca's track rod ends
put sharpened bars through floors
fail cars for having rusted flarenuts on brake pipes
there is also a new computer test which i havent had the pleasure of doing yet
if u have a diesal u have to sign a disclaimer incase they blow up your engine when doing the gas test
when the first computerised centre re opened after conversion seven brand new cars straight of tghe transporter went through the test after complaints
they were to strict; 2 passed
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 11/1/03 at 11:30 PM |
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I cant comment on the new computerised test yet as we are still waiting for it over here. As reguards the standard of testing I was talking about the
test standard as laid down by the VI & as I/we have a local office not far from where I work we tend to get regular visits. Oh & I have witnessed VI
staff doing things that I Have got B*ll*ckings for from a roving inspector. Yes they are trying to pull up standards but with the no striping of
parts policy and new motors coming out with so much underside / engine / wheel arch paneling fitted so that you can not see at all (new 7 serries BMW)
what you need to be looking at. AND TOTAL FLY BY WIRE brake, tranmision & engine control It makes things interesting. Then you've got top line audi,
porche, mercedes which come with a dealer only key to open the bonnet so they MUST be refered back to the dealers (who don't really want them cos
they are over the 3 year age barrier).
So jolly old MOT testers are meant to write out tickets for things that they can't see.
Also it wasn't that long ago that I met someone who had come over from Ireland with a FULL uk Licence. Never took a test got the licence cos they
had had a provision licence for a moped for 8 years & with the testing backlog they held an amnesty & issued licences to those who had held
provisional licences for 6 years or more!
Times are a changing as is the everything in life. We all try & do the best we can given the limits that we are allowed to work in. Personally I am
totally digusted with the leniency with wich we meant to treat the mechanical condition of vehicles & the lack of backbone by those in power to say to
those testing that if a component is Nadgered as in my case with mondeo wishbone bushes then tough Sir/Madam IT FAILS! The trouble is that customer
think that the MOT is more than it is. Then you have the tyre wear laws. MOT law is one thing, construction & use laws are another, also if the
vehicle is a van does it come under car or commercial tyre wear. There is no cominality in the regulations. Personaly unless your on a race track I
think that 1.6 mm not enough.
Sorry I rattled on again like my daughter.
We all have relative experiences & through those we can help each other.
Enjoy.
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johnston
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| posted on 12/1/03 at 06:09 PM |
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quote:
licence cos they had had a provision licence for a moped for 8 years & with the testing backlog they held an amnesty & issued licences to those who
had held provisional licences for 6 years or more!
yeah that would have been down south thou theyve only just introduced an mot style test and from wat i can gather its only done every other year
not 100% sure if this is true but ive been told you dont need a qualified driver beside you if your on a provisional therefore you dont actually need
to do a test to drive
was told of a ren4 a student brought to belfast left it into a garage for a service the car was that bad the copper brake pipe burst as the mechanic
was parking it outside
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 12/1/03 at 08:20 PM |
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When I was working in Bedford for another company (L*X) a few years ago an old gent bought a car (Fiat127 I believe)
in for MOT & as I jacked at the front it started to give in the middle due to corrosion ------- Test suspended & customer advised. He still decided
that he had to drive it away!
Also a firm called G***iner M**ors out of Wellingborough (I might have been working for him {allegedly} at the time)
had his recovery truck tested by the ministry. After it passed (thats another story) his son collected it & litteraly drove it 100yds back to our
depot & stops. As he does so, A brake pipe fails. Wots the boss do (sorry but he IS Irish), phones the VI & gives THEM a B*LL*CK*NG the likes of which
I never heard before.
Next year the VI (same bloke) MOTs the wagon again. ------- 3 guess's wot he failed it on.?
"brake pipes corroded" & that was all he wrote on the VT30. Boss starts to ring & complain so I says remember last year. so he says "but which
pipes".
Reply came "ALL"
Moral of the story don't P*ss *ff the ministry.
Enjoy.
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Rorty
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| posted on 13/1/03 at 04:05 AM |
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Monday, back again. I'll address the remarks as they come.
Syd Bridge:
quote:
It seems some emotions are getting a bit hot.
I think I was more exasperated than hot. I would be the last person to claim my way is the only or right way, but I do get pi$$ed off when someone
arrogantly states they have hatched THE solution to a problem when clearly the book is still open. Moreover, I still maintain some of Syd's notions
are ill founded, and his statements border on reckless and iresponsible. Some novices could take what he stated as gospel, and create a potentially
dangerous vehicle as a result.
quote:
AlanB's comments are level headed, relevant and straightforward.
I have nothing but the highest regard for AlanB. I wouldn't know him if I fell over him, but the impression I get of him from his professional,
amiable posts, to the sterling work he's doing on his car, could only lead me to hold him in high regard.
I was not leveling any complaint or critisism at AlanB, but at the manner in which Syd Bridge misrepresented what AlanB had said.
Syd again:
quote:
When is a metal tube in a bush a 'crush tube', and when is it not?
For crying out loud Syd! Any metal tube in a bush is a crush tube is a crush tube is a crush tube is a crush tube! They are designed to be nipped up,
captured, squeezed, whatever. They are for resisting crushing forces, to keep any surrounding material from being crushed or distorted to the point
where they become inoperable or fail.
Any other bit of tube is just that!
Syd again:
quote:
Rorty, please read what I said previously again. If necessary, go and run your eyes over some earthmoving and agricultural equipment, then down scale
some of the solutions you see. Your racing machinery might even benefit.
Not only are you pompous and arogant Syd, but now you're patronising me too.
I'm perfectly aware of heavy indrustrial and agricultural pivots, and if you read what I said, you would have seen that I payed hommage to them.
Syd again:
quote:
The Quinton Hazell part comes in a box marked part no.Y419. The box contains rubber bushes that have integral metal liners.
Crush tubes?
quote:
The box does not say' Triumph Suspension Bushes with crush tubes'. These and similar bushes can, and have been used for many applications, apart
from suspension bushes.
They can be found in many places where some flexion is called for.
Has anyone got a workshop manual for a Spitfire/Herald, or any old cars which used Metalastic bushes? What are the installation instructions for
them?
Syd again:
quote:
The solution arrived at here, may not be the one you accept, but then again, I'm not trying to say that this is the ONLY, or best solution.
Here we go again! Syd, it's not "the solution", it's your opinion, and an illadvised one at that....in my humble opinion, that is.
Syd again:
quote:
Rorty, I am genuinely interested to see how you achieve near 50% more rotation than manufacturers spec with your rodends, as your frontend pics don't
show any appreciable modification of the joint. This would solve a myriad of worries for most people here, as to future options.
Syd, you're quite the protagonist! I won't be drawn on this one. I have already stated that I don't believe it is the way forward for Locosts, due
to the cost of modifying the rodends. The rodends would be perfectly serviceable orientated in the vertical plane, which would keep costs down.
Alternatively, Transit, or similar, trackrod ends could be used.
Besides, I don't want to divulge all my secrets! Suffice to say, I get ample articulation out of them, with abundant travel too.
Syd again:
quote:
Don't look for problems, look for answers!
Sheeeesh!
Jolly and Johnston, I can't really comment on current MOT and SVA tests, as indeed, I left the UK in 1992, but prior to that, I had my fair share of
run-ins with testers.
I would just like to round up by saying that my offers of help are genuine, and I will be only too happy to assist anyone in any way I can. I don't
profess to know it all, or even half of it. I'm a furniture restorer afterall.
I really enjoy this open forum, and if any of my comments have anoyed, outraged, or offended anyone, then again, I appologise.
Syd, I sincerely wish you "G'day". 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Metal Hippy™
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 posted on 13/1/03 at 04:22 AM |
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Hopefully from my point of view as an innocent bystander this is over with now?
I've followed the 'arguments' the last few days and mostly there's no point to it as Rorty at least knows. It gets nowhere and causes annoyance,
frustration and stops this being a forum that's as fun as it is informative which I think most will agree is a fair percentage of the reason it's
become a success.
All agree?
President of the Non-conformist Locost Builders Club. E-mail for details...
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 13/1/03 at 10:05 AM |
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Just one thing that annoys me, Rorty ------ where do you get your smileys from.   (appart from the VI that is)
God its another day & the chances are inumerable ------ Enjoy.
If it seems like Im having a pop at anyone then Im sorry (except for the VI) cos Im not, Just telling a line or two as they are from my eyes 'n'
ears & listenening to the sound of posts that come back.
[Edited on 13/1/03 by jollygreengiant]
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philgregson
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| posted on 13/1/03 at 03:28 PM |
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Sorry - I know we should be letting this die but I just want to have one last say.
If you are using metalastic bushes they should be used as designed i.e. clamped tight on the crush tube - the application here is almost identical to
their intended use in a spitfire or herald. What is the point of using them in any other way when this is what they were designed for?
If you do not want clamped up metalastic bushes then use something diferent that is designed to act as a rotating bush or pivot. If something readily
exists to do a job then why are we spending hours debating how to get away with something less suitable.
If you want nylon bushes but can't afford them there is no excuse for bodging something not suitable when there is an acceptable, alternative, cheap
and perfectly functional way of doing it (clamped metalastic bushes).
Just my humble opinion.
Phil.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 13/1/03 at 08:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Also a firm called G***iner M**ors out of Wellingborough (I might have been Enjoy.
Ahh, jollygreen, mr gardiner. He used to do all the servicing on my companies cars 10 years back. I have also used him on two occasions to recover
cars - one got hit at the side of the road, the other was my donor!
Gardiners dont do mot's - they farm em out. Sanders motors is run buy a good olde boy 400 yds up the road - they do mots and seem to be fair. Perhaps
he should have used them!
The crappyest garage I ever dealt with was the rover garage in wellyboro - now defunct. Here are just a few peices of fun with my F reg 820E rover
(when it was 1 - 4 years old - flywheel eventually came loose and wrecked the engine - and was bought by gard.......)
1. Car overheats thro lack of water on way home from service. "Service does not include water check...."
2. Front disks are scored by worn pads. "How come you didnt replace pads at 12,000 mile service' - answer - we check that the pads will last to the
OPTIONAL 6,000 mile service.
3. Brake light warning comes on. "I think the back pads are worn' - 'ok - we will look'. "nothing wrong sir - loose wire. Light comes on again.
"we think its a wiring loom fault, bring it back in a couple week s when we have the part." Loom fitted on 3rd visit. Driving car home, light comes
on again. Take car back, 4th time, not best pleased. "we found the fault sir. Rear pads were worn.
Total, total total, total, total W A N K E R S.
Had 3 garages, all gone now. Wonder why.
This thread is getting petty.
How about finding my ABS thread and resurrecting that for a laff
atb Steve.
Rorty - your advice and knowledge is well appreciated.
Syd - wish you well in your car builds and thanks for stimulating the discusssion which has taught me a bit along the way.
atb
Steve
atb
Steve
[Edited on 13/1/03 by stephen_gusterson]
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/1/03 at 12:54 AM |
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Hi Chaps.
Beautiful day down here...37 degrees. It's too hot for any serious work, so I'm off to turn some crush tubes for the PU bushes I've got to fit
tomorrow. 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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fastenuff
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| posted on 14/1/03 at 06:48 PM |
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crush tubes
you could make me some Rorty but in such a way that they hold some Lite Ice and spill the VB
ingmar
Ingmar
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 14/1/03 at 11:02 PM |
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respectfully, and in no way wanting to cause an argument but....
I was confused here.
Crush tube sounds like its gonna deform and get shorter and even pinch the bolt. Is this what you are describing?
Otherwise, in my vocabulary, this sounds like a spacer. One thats a mil or so longer than the bush, that is clamped and held from rotating and stays
1mm longer than the bush.
Is this a terminology thing or does it really reduce in length - i.e crush?
atb
Steve
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Rorty
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| posted on 15/1/03 at 01:45 AM |
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Steve:
quote:
Crush tube sounds like its gonna deform and get shorter and even pinch the bolt. Is this what you are describing? Otherwise, in my vocabulary, this
sounds like a spacer. One thats a mil or so longer than the bush, that is clamped and held from rotating and stays 1mm longer than the bush.
This is just terminology. A crush tube doesn't get squashed or buckled, quite the opposite. It is to resist crushing loads. Another instance of a
crush tube, is the short length of tube you would weld through a chassis member through which you would insert a bolt for the likes of a seat belt
shackle. In this case, the crush tube prevents the seat belt bolt from crushing the surrounding chassis member.
As described earlier, a crush tube for a soft-ish PU bush, needs to be about 0.5 to 1mm SHORTER than the assembled PU bush. A crush tube for a hard PU
or Acetal bush needs to be the same length, and the crush tube that comes Vulcanised into a Metalastic bush, is generally LONGER than the rubber bush
to reduce side friction when the bolt is tightened.
Amen?
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 15/1/03 at 10:16 PM |
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thx Rorty. That clears things up.
So....
if I decide to get some special bushes turned out of a length of polyflex supplied pu(?) I need tubes thro it that are 0.5 - 1mm shorter.
This might also explain another problem.
On my car, I have some zeemeride chepo shocks. without tigtening the top and bottom bolts, or using side washers on the rubber looking bushes, they
are being very deformed. I guess that with washers each side of the crush tube, this will support the rubbery bit and prevent this distortion?
atb
Steve
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