Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 15/7/04 at 11:49 AM |
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keep it simple guys!
 
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 15/7/04 at 11:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by spunky
Mike
Thats really got my interest, lubrication issues aside, has this been done successfully before?
Yes, I've have seen this done on a hill climb car with a bike engine. Lubrication was a few squirts of chain lube as longevity is not really an
issue for that kind of use.
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 15/7/04 at 11:51 AM |
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and
 
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spunky
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| posted on 15/7/04 at 02:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Terrapin_racing
keep it simple guys!
Terrapin, what is that dif then. Surely not a modded car unit.
John
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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Cita
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| posted on 15/7/04 at 04:50 PM |
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The diff has it's front chopped off and is turned back to front.The crown wheel will be replaced by a sprocket and the diff will keep all
it's advantages.
Since i intend to use the car in hillclimbs the runs will be short so lubrication,as Rob (Terrapin) suggested will be with super sticky lubricant.
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sgraber
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| posted on 15/7/04 at 05:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Cita
The diff has it's front chopped off and is turned back to front.The crown wheel will be replaced by a sprocket and the diff will keep all
it's advantages.
Since i intend to use the car in hillclimbs the runs will be short so lubrication,as Rob (Terrapin) suggested will be with super sticky lubricant.
All becomes clear. Is there any way to build an outer shell out of thin sheet metal to hold lubricant? Just thinking about ways to make it more long
lasting...
Thank you for the extended description. 
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Cita
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| posted on 15/7/04 at 05:08 PM |
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Thin sheet metal-polyester-aluminum you name it.
I'm thinking about this Steve and it would'nt be a difficult thing to do.
The problem is not the backside of the diff but the side where the chain comes out the diff and goes to the engine sprocket.
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sgraber
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| posted on 15/7/04 at 05:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Cita
Thin sheet metal-polyester-aluminum you name it.
I'm thinking about this Steve and it would'nt be a difficult thing to do.
The problem is not the backside of the diff but the side where the chain comes out the diff and goes to the engine sprocket.
What about a enclosed chain-guard/cover attached to the diff that extends all the way up and around the output sprocket on the motor? That way the
lubrication would spray/splash/bathe the chain too. My Quad has an enclosing chain guard with an opening on one side to check for tension, It's
main purpose is to protect the chain from debris and to prevent the chain from becoming a lethal whip should it break, but a gasketed cover could
easily be fabricated to seal the opening...
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Cita
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| posted on 15/7/04 at 05:28 PM |
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That's a very good idea Steve!Thanks!!
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spunky
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| posted on 15/7/04 at 08:10 PM |
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You could use a Scottoiler and adapt it to lube the chain and planetery gears at the same time.
John
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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Rorty
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| posted on 16/7/04 at 05:14 AM |
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I've seen CR500 engines in cars before, though ususlly the later water cooled versions. I used to race against quite a potent CR powered car.
You'll need to keep the weight below 350 kg or it will eat clutches/go nowhere. It's not an ideal engine for a hill climber though: you
need torque for pulling out of tight turns etc. Make sure the gear stick is well oiled. It'll be seeing a lot of action!
That's an unnecessarily complicated diff arangement, and I wouldn't use any "super sticky lubricant" as it will rob the engine
of much needed power. Keep even light oil out of it other than a preliminary squirt on the bearings. Use dry film lubricant on the chain to prevent
dirt and grit sticking to it.
I've got to ask: why use a diff at all. With a very light chassis and low COG, it's not much more than a glorified go-kart. I would be
inclined to run a solid/locked axle and let the engine and tyres sort it out amongst themselves.
I've also seen an on-board starter using a chain, sprocket and hand-operated lever (more weight though).
Push starting sounds fine for hill climbs. There are always plenty of eager suckers around the pits.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Fifer
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| posted on 16/7/04 at 10:05 AM |
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Buy a high quality "O" ring type chain.
No need for any chain oil at all........
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 16/7/04 at 10:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Fifer
Buy a high quality "O" ring type chain.
No need for any chain oil at all........
The issue was lubricating the diff rather than the chain!
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spunky
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| posted on 16/7/04 at 10:34 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Fifer
Buy a high quality "O" ring type chain.
No need for any chain oil at all........
O and X ring chains also sap the power.
I use a plain chain lubed with Slick 50
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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Fifer
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| posted on 16/7/04 at 11:12 AM |
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I'm sure someone mentioned above lubing the chain !
Sorry for commenting 
How much power does an O ring chain take over a normal one ?
I'm guessing you would be pushed to see the diference on a dyno ?
For what it's worth, if it's for racing, I would go with the locked diff set up, i used to weld up my diff on my stock car as it's
not required when you are sliding in every corner.
Hey Ho, better not get involved 
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spunky
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| posted on 16/7/04 at 01:44 PM |
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Your right, sealed chains dont rob much and hardly worth bothering with on a 180bhp superbike, but on a low powered competition machine it's
gotta help.
I use plain chains on my enduro, not for power but sand under the O rings shags them pretty quick....
John
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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andkilde
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| posted on 16/7/04 at 03:27 PM |
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On lubricating a chain driven diff -- why not use a viscous LSD mounted in sealed (pre-lubricated) bearings? No messy diff lube or casings to cobble
up.
And belts would be worth looking at as well, harder to find sprockets for but quite efficient and infinitely cleaner than a chain.
Cheers, Ted
[Edited on 16/7/04 by andkilde]
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Cita
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| posted on 16/7/04 at 03:51 PM |
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That's a good question Rorty" why go for a diff on such a light car".
If i was'nt such a chickenshit i would use a solid axle with minimum rubber suspension.It surely would simplify things enormously.
I also read so much pro's and con's on a two stroker for use in light cars that the confusion is complete.The same goes for
suspension-live axle without a diff seem to work perfectly for certain formula style light cars.
Perhaps i should look at it as a" gloryfied go-kart" instead of a car.
I would love to go the Rorty way but....
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Cita
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| posted on 19/7/04 at 03:11 PM |
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Suppose i would go for a solid axle without a diff have any of you guys got any idea on how to mount the wheelhub onto an axle in such a way that i
can remove those hubs easely,
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Cita
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| posted on 23/7/04 at 05:58 PM |
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This is just an idea of how the wheel hub can be made removable.The sleeve is welded to the wheel hub and the sleeve/hub combination is bolted onto
the axle(thickwall tube)with two 1/2" high strenght bolts.I know it's certainly not the best engineering solution but could this
work?
 
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Cita
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| posted on 23/7/04 at 06:00 PM |
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Oops,done it again HUUUUUUGE picture,sorry!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 27/7/04 at 05:10 PM |
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In the few autograss specials (like the one in my archive, which won again this weekend!!!) which use diffs with bike engines and chain drives (which
mine doesn't!), they use escort LSD's from the ford "English" axle, bolt a sprocket to the crownwheel, mount the diff from
it's original bearing locations on a pair of "plummer block" bearings, weld caps over two of the 4 round holes in the diff casing
and weld a boss with a grease nipple in it into the third hole and a drill and tap another boss in the 4th hole for an m6 screw. The grease lubes the
slipper plates and the pinion gears, you take out the m6 screw, pump in grease until it comes out of the screw hole and hey presto, maintenance free
diff!. There are no other apertures in the diff apart from the 4 holes, and the plummer block bearings are sealed and have grease nipples so no oil
supply needed there.
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Cita
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| posted on 27/7/04 at 06:49 PM |
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Thanks for the reply NSDev but i dont see the picture for me.
What is a plummer bearing block?
The sprocket replacing the crown wheel must be mighty small to fit inside the diff housing as i understand the housing is used? Aldo i only have the
Merc diff to compare with there is ample room to mount something bigger than the original crown wheel.
For the moment i have set the diff approach aside and strongly think about going the solid axle route with trailing arms.
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Cita
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| posted on 30/7/04 at 07:05 AM |
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3100 members and not one of them find it a bad idea to bold the wheelhub to a axle?
That's VERY hard to believe on this forum
Or nobody is interested,could also be the case
Or even worse,nobody is interested in my car
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Bob C
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| posted on 30/7/04 at 10:11 AM |
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OK Cita it's a shite system.... what you should do is drawn badly below - it's all DIY able if you have a lathe. The key is a 1/4"
round pin, you drill along the taper from the nut end so the pin fits nice and the nut keeps it in. Hope it makes sense
Cheers
Bob C
 
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