Avoneer
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| posted on 21/7/05 at 05:03 PM |
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Upper Rear Seat Belt Mounts
Hi,
Am I better welding my insert to the back of the chassis bar or drilling right through the chassis bar and welding the insert there (just worried
about this weakening the chassis bar)???
Cheers,
Pat....JPG)
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Avoneer
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| posted on 21/7/05 at 05:06 PM |
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And another pic:.JPG)
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JoelP
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| posted on 21/7/05 at 05:08 PM |
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id drill it through and weld it top and bottom  Welded to the back it would be weaker. The chassis bar you drill through wouldnt be excessively
weakened IMHO obviously
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rayward
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| posted on 21/7/05 at 05:11 PM |
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Mine are welded to the back, haven't had any problems
Ray
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 21/7/05 at 05:21 PM |
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Most seem to weld it to the back of the tube, if the top of it is level with the tube , hieght could become an issue at SVA , depending on seat squab
thickness, my mounts where about an 1" above that tube , and I needed a mega thin haemorroid splitting seat squab for the test!!!
[Edited on 21/7/05 by Surrey Dave]
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clbarclay
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| posted on 21/7/05 at 05:46 PM |
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one example from the 'book' was to extend the tube down to the lower O tubes. This should prevent twisting to the top tube if the mounting
points are too high.
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Fozzie
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| posted on 21/7/05 at 07:10 PM |
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IMHO that wont take a lot of stress! It will twist and turn under 'load'.
It will not pass SVA like that.
Pat you must remember (as dave previously has said), to think about the datum point height.
HTH Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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Avoneer
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| posted on 21/7/05 at 08:52 PM |
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I wasn't going to weld it where it was - it was just in the pic so you could see what I was going to use!
Think I'll weld my insert on the back of the tube with the bottom of it level with the bottom of the tube. It' 2" long anway and I
can drop the seat 1" by removing the runners just before SVA.
Cheers,
Pat...
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Alan_Thomas
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| posted on 21/7/05 at 09:43 PM |
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I found that with my 'Oddessy' seats I could not get the mounting above the SVA height welding the inserts anywhere on the top chassis
rail.
I was going to fit a roll bar anyway so I added another horizonal bar made from rollbar tubing (suprisingly light!) about 3" up from the chassis
rail and the inserts fitted thru the tube.
No problems with SVA or strength.
- Alan
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Fozzie
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| posted on 21/7/05 at 09:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan_Thomas
I found that with my 'Oddessy' seats I could not get the mounting above the SVA height welding the inserts anywhere on the top chassis
rail.
I was going to fit a roll bar anyway so I added another horizonal bar made from rollbar tubing (suprisingly light!) about 3" up from the chassis
rail and the inserts fitted thru the tube.
No problems with SVA or strength.
- Alan
Exactly the way I got around the problem Alan!
Fozzie
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 22/7/05 at 07:37 AM |
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Like these Fozzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
 
Rescued attachment blue and my locosts vsml.jpg
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ned
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| posted on 22/7/05 at 09:38 AM |
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discussed before, but this was my solution. i wasn't happy with the idea of welding to the back of the top rail due to the twisting forces
(moments) that would act in the case of an accident situation.
i added some small additional 1" rhs pieces to the top rail to increase the height to ensure sva compliance with the harness mount height, i also
drilled right through and welded my threaded tubes top and bottom, then also added some more bracing down to the top dif mounts to resisit the top
rail twisting under the load of 2 people in the car at 2g under accident conditions, so say 80kg each person thats 320kg in total in an accident
situation which is over half the weight of the car trying to pull the top rear cockpit chassis member with your harness mounts in from the rest of the
chassis. 2g may be on the conservative side too depending on the type/speed of impact, you may think i went ott but i consulted some very experienced
engineers to reach my own solution, think about it, its your safty above all else.
all imvho of course.
Ned.
 
cockpit bulkhead
[Edited on 22/7/05 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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James
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| posted on 22/7/05 at 10:03 AM |
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I've just done mine to a bar between the rollbar verticals. I wanted to do it similarly to Ned's but my seat squabs are pretty thick and I
couldn't come up with a way of getting the 460mm otherwise.
SVA manual says it needs to be able to stand something like 10G IIRC and that may be OTT but just to be on the safe side!
HTH,
James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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Fozzie
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| posted on 22/7/05 at 06:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
Like these Fozzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
Errrrrrr yup dave...
 
Rescued attachment BrizeFozzmobile.jpg
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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Rorty
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| posted on 28/7/05 at 04:33 AM |
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I like the idea of the aditional horizontal tube in the roll bar, but I would just wrap the harnesses around the tube rather than
drilling/welding/bolting them to the tube.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Fozzie
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| posted on 28/7/05 at 09:55 AM |
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Rorty, Wrapping the harnesses around the tube, would be a definate 'no-no' with the SVA man.
Mr SVA man 'likes' to see a belt and braces approach to the harness mountings. In my case it doesn't just rely on the welding of the
tube, but is also very well connected to the chassis....well strong!
ATB Fozzie
[Edited on 28/7/05 by Fozzie]
'Racing is Life!...anything before or after is just waiting'....Steve McQueen
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ned
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| posted on 28/7/05 at 10:45 AM |
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I think there would be issues relating to the stitching of a seatbelt around the tube or the use of slider/tensioners in such a scenario aswell.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Peteff
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| posted on 28/7/05 at 12:10 PM |
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You could run them from the back of the chassis tube and sling them over the tube across the roll bar without any problem to get extra height as long
as the rollbar tube is smooth. We got one through like that and it helped take up some of the extra length of the belt.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Rorty
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| posted on 28/7/05 at 01:32 PM |
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Wrapping the shoulder belts around a roll cage tube is standard practice in motorsports. There's no stitching involved, you just thread the
belts around the tube and back through the manufacturer-supplied buckles. Have a look at any harness manufacturers web site and you'll see the
set-up.
Folding the webbing and passing it through a small bolt-on fitting isn't as good as wrapping the belts because wrapping the belts around a tube
causes far less fatigue in the webbing.
I'm supprised SVA don't prefer the belts to be wrapped rather than bolted.
Simpson wrap around.
Safe Quip wrap around.
Autopower wrap around
Wrap around installation.
[Edited on 29/7/05 by Rorty]
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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James
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| posted on 28/7/05 at 02:32 PM |
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2nd link, bottom-most picture on the left.... I like it!!!!
Does it come with a quick release!
James
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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Avoneer
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| posted on 28/7/05 at 09:08 PM |
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Right - further thoughts.
I don't want a horizontal bar in my hoop so...
1) Can I use just one mounting point for each side???
2) No problems with the 460mm as the moutning eye is about 468mm from the seat squab.
3) The tube will be seam welded with a triangle gusset on the inside.
 
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Avoneer
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| posted on 28/7/05 at 09:09 PM |
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And another pic:
 
Rescued attachment 2.JPG
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Rorty
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| posted on 28/7/05 at 10:02 PM |
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If you mount those "posts" at that height, you'll either rip them out of that small tube or you'll rip the tube out of the
chassis when you put some serious strain on the belts...like in a frontal shunt.
The only way I'd attach a seat belt eye to that tube would be to weld a saddle to the tube and then weld the crush tube at an angle
through it so the belt eye is in line with the angle of the shoulder belts. That tube is just too small and light weight to do what you're
intending. But, it's your life.
What's more, if you have a low speed shunt and don't tear that post and tube out, you'll probably fracture your skull on it when
your head whiplashes.
Don't forget, the shoulder belts are supposed to be well below shoulder height and at an angle of about 35-40 degrees when tensioned over the
driver's shoulders. If you fit those posts as you've illustrated, the pull will be at the wrong angle, further compounding your problems.
Wrapping the belts around that tube would be a far more acceptable solution; they will find their own strain angle and would spread the load over a
much wider area.
More here...
and here.
I just can't see that passing SVA...at least I would like to think it wouldn't pass.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Avoneer
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| posted on 28/7/05 at 10:46 PM |
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But in essence, it exactly the same as Stuart Taylor and MK...all be it with an additional triangular husset on the front.
Pat...
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Rorty
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| posted on 28/7/05 at 11:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Avoneer
But in essence, it exactly the same as Stuart Taylor and MK...
Doesn't mean it's right!
[retreats to a safe distance from MK fundamentalists]
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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