Hi everyone,
A while back I made the locost frame in 3DS Max 4 using box's in 'real' size to get a feeling for the frame. I'm thinking about
redoing it adjusting the frame to metric friendly dimentions and adjusting it for fitting a 12A engine.
If anyone wants it in its current format drop me a message and I send the .max file over. All the bar are still single boxes grouped
together.
Rescued attachment frame03.jpg
Hey Bas, send me a copy.....looks good
abdesdes@earthlink.net
Cheers,
Alan
I want a pair of those uprights. They're .... magic! 
Hmm, I wonder what will happen if I wave them around:-)
Alan send you a copy, let me know what you think. For the MR I joined all the bars together making it a single object but that made it rather
difficult to make changes...
Noodle you honestly only want the uprights??
Can you post me the file too?
perspexit@yahoo.com
Thank you! 
Hi Bas,
Have you made any adjustments to the frame to allow for the 12A yet? I'd love to see the results. All being well, I'll be using a 13B -
getting a beaten up RX-7 on saturday.
Unfortunately I dont have any 3D modelling software so you'll have to post it here, or email me a jpg.
Cheers,
Graham
me too
rofrancis1@exchange.sihe.ac.uk
PerpexIt/racingdick, it's emailed.
GO, I haven't adjusted it yet. I still have a 944 to sell before I can buy my donor car.
Are you using an FC as donor? How much are you going to use? I've been talking to Bart if I shouldn't go with FC because they are easier to
get and they have independent suspention and are more powerful. But for me they introduce two problems:
- the engine is more complex
- I need to make alot of changes to the frame and I want to stay as close to the original design as possible.
Anyways, once I sell the 944 I'll be looking for a donor and deside by then if I go SA or FC. Then I'll have to take it appart, do the final
meassurements to adjust the frame, and then I start building the frame hopefully by mid summer.
could you send me the MAX file too? I am currently thinking about doing a 12A one too. Probably next year. Very nice job btw.
dave_z28ca@yahoo.com
Hi Bas,
I'll be using a 2nd generation RX-7, which I believe is the FC. It's from 1986, just after they changed the shape. It does have IRS.
I'm hoping to use as much as possible, but initially I'll probably only be using engine and box. This is for a couple of reasons. Firstly,
the RX-7 I'm getting (hopefully tomorrow morning - not even seen it yet 
), has had all it's calipers liberated, so I'd have to source
them elsewhere which I imagine will be £££ 
. Secondly, I've bought my chassis from Luego, the Velocity chassis, with wishbones etc. which are
all designed for Sierra hubs etc., I want to get on the road as quickly as possible, which means going with Sierra uprights, hubs and
diff/driveshafts.
However, in the long run, i.e. the winter after its on the road, I'm planning on looking at using the diff (I'm guessing it'll be
better than a Sierra diff!), and fabricating lightweight front and rear uprights to take some big bike brakes (thanks for the idea Rorty!! )
You've now got me worried that I'll need to do something fancy to try and fit the engine!! The Velocity chassis does have some significant
changes to the engine bay over the book. The most important change is that the tube that runs from the drivers side (right hand drive) top of the
tranny tunnel to roughly the position of the top wishbone mount (sorry, not having built the chassis I haven't studied the book enough to know
the tubes by heart! - must go and read), is about half as long and joins the top rail much closer to the scuttle. There is an additional tube in a
mirror image on the opposite side of the engine bay, unlike the book. I'll have to post some pictures of the chassis, there's probably some
in the archive already.
Hopefully, it'll be ok, the Velocity has been designed to allow as many engine options as possible, maybe my assumption that rotary motors being
nice and compact and therefore bound to fit may have been a bit premature!
However, all this is probably going to change tomorrow when I get my hands on the RX-7!!!
PS. I've seen a lot more SA's than FC's over here, was pure luck that I discovered an FC that was being broken - managed to rescue it
just before it was banger raced as well!
Graham
Hey GO,
Well I guess the ratio of available donor SA/FC is different. I recked an FC just over a year ago, if it wasn't for the engine being unusable
I'd have kept it as a donor. I can still get parts from it if I please from the shop that has it now.
They have plenty of FCs around they use for parts cars, non are complete and the good engines have all been reused but still....
As for fitting the engine. Yes the rotary is in general smaller then most other engines. Problem though is that it is a different configuration.
Remember that most piston engine's have the crankshaft in the bottom and the gearboxs are designed that way. The rotary has it's excentric
shaft in the middle, so it is much higher then normal making the gearbox much taller then other gearboxes. I think that is where you're main
difficulty may be.
Well you'll know tomorow and I would be glad to hear your findings. I plan to build my chassis so I have some more freedom here. Still need to
get a good welding course though, but that is just part of the fun:-)
Beste Bas,
Kun je nog een kopietje missen van jouw file? Is altijd wel interessant om te hebben. Zenden naar superseven@tiscali.nl
Alvast bedankt, Rob.
Hoi Rob,
Is verstuurt:-)
Greetz,
Bas
About the Mazda engine, the worst aspect of it is how the devil to silence it. This is made all the worse by the Super-7-esque car you're putting it in. Just where are the huge mufflers going to go, or worse yet, the catalytic converter. I've seen it done, but the drivers are all deaf in one ear...
Hey kb,
definately a problem we need to do something about and also one of the reasons for me to go with an SA or one of the first models FCs. No catalitic
converter. Car is going to be a fun car that won't be driven that much so screw the environmentalists, they just need to make an exception on
this one:-)
The silencer is an interesting bit. In holland you're not allowed to have exhausts on the side, they need to be underneath the car or inside the
body only having the final bit sticking out the rear of the car. I'm thinking about having the exhaust running underneath the car and a silencer
mounted in the width of the car at the back. I am just not sure how to combine this with the fueltank because the silencer will be where the fueltank
is now. I imagine you shouldn't put a hot exhaust very close to fuel:-)
Certainly something I need to start working on once I have my donor car in pieces and can finally do some proper messurements on the engine and adjust
the frame according to what is possible before building it.
Hi there,
I'm from the Czech RX7 club (maybe you know hIGGI?) and we have lots of FC parts here...
so I would be especially interested in the FC (2nd gen, 86-91) version of your chasis..
could you send me that if u ever design it... and can you send me current 12A version as well?
Thanks a lot,
happy building
Martyn
emmel@centrum.cz
[Edited on 15/4/03 by Emmel]
Hey Emmel,
Everything going ok? Yeah I know Higgi, talk to him on the RX7 forum from time to time.
I haven't modified the chassis yet, the max file is the locost chassis as it comes from the book. First order of business is selling my 944 and
then finding a suitable donor car. Then I can do the meassurements to adjust the chassis to 12A and start building it. at that time I'll be sure
to post the 12a version of the max file.
I'll only do a 13B if I deside to go 13B and not 12A myself but as I stand now, I'm going 12A.
[Edited on 15/4/03 by BasOlij]
As I said... lots of spare FC parts, not so many cars ok .
Certainly a good reason to go FC but there are also reasons not to go FC:-)
I still have till summer to make up my mind:-)
By car like this... u dont have to bother about stock exhaust+kat, simply remove it. U dont have to use power steering.. u can use premix instead of oil injection (recommended)... and finally, the 13B is just as simple as the 12A, just with injectors etc
Emmel,
Very true, but I need to look at the impact this has on the SVA test. If I loose to many 'points' by changing to much I can't get the
car registrated based on the donor car and there will be no way in hell I can get this thing on plates.
If I get one of the early FCs I can get away with it most likely, not sure though. I still have access to the FC I wrecked last year although I have
no idea if the engine is still usable. An FC non turbo isn't that hard to get anyways. So I may yet go for it....
I got my FC on saturday , and now I've busted my neck clambering all over/under it getting the engine ready for removal.
Good news is that width and length wise I think it'll fit the Luego Velocity chassis.
Bad news is that I think its about an inch too high with the injection, including mounting it so it sits an inch below the bottom chassis members. The
two options I can see so far are shortening the sump, or the injection manifold. Neither of which looks simple. Anyone got any suggestions?
The two most worrying things so far are what to do with the exhaust, and how to keep the thing cool.
That exhaust is so ridiculously complicated!!
Does anyone know how the airpump works? I haven't managed to get the heat shield off the exhaust manifold so far so I'm a bit puzzled by the
strange arrangement of pipes to and from the air pump, doesn't help that the top pipe on the air pump itself wasn't attached to anything
when I got the car!
Also, anyone recommend a good book about the engine, looking after it and tuning it etc. I think I'm gonna need it!
Hey Go,
Great stuff! Bart just emailed me he has an FC totally taken appart in his garage at the moment so I want to visit him to take all the messurements
and start working on my design aswell.
As for the engine being to high, that was expected. I would not change to much on the engine in the way you suggest. Maybe make a bump on your hood or
something. I've also heard of people putting the engine in at an angle. I'll probably end up making my chassis a bit higher.
As for the complexity of the 13B compared to the 12A, yupz its nuts, one of my negative sides to. But already a number of things have been suggested
to me and some things you can do without aswell. I suggest that you take questions about the engine to the www.rx7club.com/forum site, there are
people there who can take this engine apart and put it back together blindfolded.
Good luck, let me know how things go and pictures are welcomed greatly aswell:-)
[Edited on 15/4/03 by BasOlij]
OK guys, it's time for me to step in here.
First: 12A and 13B are very simular, but in order to get it into a locost there must be put clear that 12A and 13B engines (86-91) have different
engine mounts. I suggest using a 12A front cover on either engine, allowing a more easy front mount. These front covers can be obtained VERY cheap,
and are interchangeable. That way the 12A and 13B versions of the chassis can be the same (enginewise) and a 12A powered car can easily be converted
to 13B power later on. I am not talking about the different suspension setups here (IRS for 86-91 donors, live axle on 79-85 ones), just about th
engine. The 13B will come with injection, and ECU. This will make it a lot easier to pass emission tests. If you do want, you can convert it to carb
nevertheless.
As for the airpump and exhaust: dump the whole lot. You need a header, and free flow exhaust. The air pump and solenoids to operate it, are not
needed. They are only there to get the engine cleaner during warm up. Dumping them will greatly simplify the installation. And release some HP.
Cat's are not used on the early FC's or SA models (except USA). The stuff you'll find underneath the car are pre-silencers and and a
thermal reactor. You can replace both by a header and silencer. For Bas, who is not allowed to have side-pipes: you cannot run that exhaust under the
car, no way. But, there is an easy trick (remember Marcos race cars? They are Dutch! The Marcos race team is owned by a Dutch firm): you cover them
with a box like body part, that hangs next to the real body. For the inspections that is an exhaust inside the body. If you want you can put two
silencers behind eachother, creating an exhaust close to original.
Now the injection manifold being to high: either go dry sump (not easy/cheap) or use a bulge in the hood... You could also relocate the plenum, but
that's tricky. Or do a carb conversion, if you are willing to spend the money and the SVA would let you get away with it...
Or use a aftermarket sytem with throttle bodies, but then you aren't talking locost anymore
Hey Bart,
Thanks for clearing that up, shows I've been misinformed on some issues.
I'm getting more and more confident I should go early FC without turbo aswell.
Cheers for the advice guys.
Engine etc should be coming out this weekend, should have a much clearer idea of what needs to be done then.
Bart, I was hoping someone would say that about the air pump, the conclusion I came to initially was that it could all be removed but not knowing much
(if anything) about these engines - just that they get very hot - I wanted to be on the safe side. It was the "Never Remove Air Pump" label
on the top of it that had me really worried!!
As for the bonnet bulge, I think I may follow your advice on that, got to be safer than chopping sump and/or inlet manifold. However, I already have
my bonnet, and its fibreglass - guess I've got some more learnign to do as to how to go about adding a bulge to it, and making it look nice!!
Also, what do you mean by the front cover?
Bas, pics will be going up soon, I'll get some clearer pictures of the engine once its out. I'll have to have a good read through the
rx7club site.
Go,
cool, I'll be looking forward to those:-)
Hey Bart,
what do u mean by front mount?
As far as I know, there are no engine mounts connected to the front cover.
If I think of the 13B engine, it is connected to the subframe by two engine mounts connected to the housings.. and of course there are 6 bolts to the
transmission, which is not compatible with the 12A either.
What seems the best solution to me is to keep the whole subframe with enginemounts and suspension elements from FC (86-91) AND to keep all the FC
dimensions (distance between front and rear wheels...) as well.
With that done, u will be able to use FC cardan, tranny, engine etc from the FC
AND
anytime u find your car too slow, u can go Turbo without any changes to the chasis.
Can you email me that file, Thanks
I guess a e-mail adress would be helpful lol DeanofCanada@hotmail.com, thanks again. 
quote:
Originally posted by Emmel
Hey Bart,
what do u mean by front mount?
As far as I know, there are no engine mounts connected to the front cover.
If I think of the 13B engine, it is connected to the subframe by two engine mounts connected to the housings.. and of course there are 6 bolts to the transmission, which is not compatible with the 12A either.
What seems the best solution to me is to keep the whole subframe with enginemounts and suspension elements from FC (86-91) AND to keep all the FC dimensions (distance between front and rear wheels...) as well.
With that done, u will be able to use FC cardan, tranny, engine etc from the FC
AND
anytime u find your car too slow, u can go Turbo without any changes to the chasis.
I may be wrong on this but my 13B has mount studs on the engine for a front mount on the front left hand side of the engine looking from the back
(i.e. opposite to exhaust side).
Bas, I promise I'll get some pics and measurements up soon. My digi cam is playing up and eating batteries!
Hey Go,
okay cool thanks, hope you get your digicam fixed soon. I am going to take some pictures myself soon aswell as Bart has taken apart an FC:-)
u could see plenty of FC pictures from our shop at http://rx7cz.net/photos/
Great picture,
I dont suppose that I could have it in a format that ACAD2002 would read, cheers mate.
Dale
dalefaulkner@yahoo.co.uk
Hey Dale,
Sorry mate, only have in in max format. Don't know if ACAD can import max files....
Greetz,
Bas