02GF74
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 10:06 AM |
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what is the story here?
On my route home I join a ring road from a slip road.
There is a set of traffic lights for the slip road as well as one on the slip road, as shown.
Obviously at rush hour the traffic is choco so it is possible for 2 cars to be sitting in front of the white line on the slip road trying to get onto
the ring road.
The lights on the slip road then go red and traffic flows on the ring road.
Now my understanding is that the traffic lights only apply to cars behind the white line. In this case, the cars in front. like the red
boxter, are allowed to proceed onto the ring road when the traffic light is red.
True or false?
 
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hughpinder
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 10:17 AM |
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I thought you weren't supposed to cross the line unless your exit was clear, therefore you'll never be stopped there.
Regards
Hugh
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Benzine
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 10:22 AM |
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If both sets of lights are showing all colours at once you're screwed anyway 
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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02GF74
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 10:26 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hughpinder
I thought you weren't supposed to cross the line unless your exit was clear, therefore you'll never be stopped there.
I think that applies to box junction, which this is not.
... but highway code states:
[Laws RTA 1988, sect 22 & CUR reg 103]
243
DO NOT stop or park
* near a school entrance
* anywhere you would prevent access for Emergency Services
* at or near a bus or tram stop or taxi rank
* on the approach to a level crossing/tramway crossing
* opposite or within 10 metres (32 feet) of a junction, except in an authorised parking space
Ok, so you are not supposed to stop there but I have yet to see anyone stop at the white line and wait until they can join the ring road.
But that does not answer the question whether you are subject to the slip road red traffic light or not if you do happen to stop in front of the white
line.
[Edited on 11/12/08 by 02GF74]
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Humbug
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 10:40 AM |
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Slight tangent re Box junctions... the rule is that "You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear". This means in
theory when the lights go green, each car must go individually across the box, and the next one can only leave the lights when the car in front has
crossed and left enough space to completely go across the junction.
...yeah, right! If everyone (anyone?) followed that, the roads would be even more clogged than they already are.
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oldtimer
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 10:48 AM |
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I guess every conceivable permutation of road can not be covered. I thought you were only supposed to go forward over the white line if you could
clear the junction safely. In reality we've all been there, over the line and not able to make the turn, hopefully not blocking any other lane
in the process. If you've left a gap to allow others to go at the change of lights, safety wise I'm sure you should stay put as others now
have a green light to cross...you may have crossed the white line but your traffic queue is under red light even if you can't see it?.. defo a
grey area.
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02GF74
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 10:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
you may have crossed the white line but your traffic queue is under red light even if you can't see it?.. defo a grey area.
hmmm, not sure I agree. I thought any vehicle is only subject to traffic control that is in front not what is behind it, apart from speed limit signs
surely?
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Rek
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 10:58 AM |
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Does the answer not vary according to the prescence of a policeman....
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02GF74
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 11:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rek
Does the answer not vary according to the prescence of a policeman....
why should the rules of the highway code change if an officer of the law is presnet or not?
As you may have worked out, my opinion is that since you have gone past the red light, you are not subjet to it regulation, and providing it is safe
to join the ring road, you should do so.
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Howlor
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 11:18 AM |
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Looks quite snowy! 
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 11:19 AM |
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IMO, over the white line = in the junction. In the junction = right of way.
BUT, like all things on the road - you know if you are taking the michael. You might not want to admit it, but you do know if you shouldn;t have done
something. Not nessisarily because it breaks the LETTER of the law, but becuase it breaks the SPIRIT of the law.
Not sure if that makes sence, but to me I wouldn't fancy being pulled out of a mangled mess, just so I can yell at another driver "Section
27b of the highway code states I had the right of way!!"
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02GF74
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 11:24 AM |
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I didn't say you had right of way, traffic from the right on the ring road has. You would obvioulsy drive forwards when it is safe to do so.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 12:45 PM |
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There should be another set of traffic lights in front of you across the road. Even though you have crossed the line at the first set of lights, the
ones opposite will be showing red. Common sense tells you that the traffic on the ring road will now have right of way and therefore you must give way
to them. I reckon it would be illegal to proceed in that instance.
Phil
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Rek
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 12:46 PM |
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Here Lies the body of Roger Clay
Who died, defending his right of way
he was in the right as he went along
but he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong!!
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02GF74
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 12:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
There should be another set of traffic lights in front of you across the road. Even though you have crossed the line at the first set of lights, the
ones opposite will be showing red. Common sense tells you that the traffic on the ring road will now have right of way and therefore you must give way
to them. I reckon it would be illegal to proceed in that instance.
hmmm, cannot recall is there is one on the oppsoite side.
My understanding is the white line is where you are meant to stop when the light is red. Once you are past it, you do not need to stop.
And it is not about common sense, I tought here in UK it was the law that we give way to traffic from right at junctions?
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Howlor
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 01:01 PM |
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The highway code states the following that is applicable.
176
You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for
you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right. If the traffic lights are not working, treat the situation as you
would an unmarked junction and proceed with great care.
Therefore you should not move over the white line unless the junction was clear.
Steve
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02GF74
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 01:18 PM |
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ok, that is useful but for the fact that I have yet to see anyone stop at the line if the junction is not clear. If you did that, then either
you'd get rear-ended or subjected to hooting or a good kicking.
but still does not answer what happens if you are past the white line?
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Howlor
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 01:26 PM |
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The law also states this:-
175
You MUST stop behind the white ‘Stop’ line across your side of the road unless the light is green. If the amber light appears you may go on only if
you have already crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to stop might cause a collision.
Therefore I would interperet this as: You should not have crossed the white line if the junction was not clear even though it is on green, but if you
have crossed it for a good reason then you can proceed with caution.
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oldtimer
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 04:06 PM |
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So, I think we can agree that you should stop at the white line if your exit is not clear, therefore you should never be in a situation where you are
stopped having gone over the line. I also agree somewhere above that there should be a set of lights on the far side of the junction??This, is of
course theory only, and your fellow travelers behind will be wearing their horns out if you don't turn on green untill all is clear.
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Howlor
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| posted on 11/12/08 at 08:10 PM |
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Agreed end of the matter!
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02GF74
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| posted on 12/12/08 at 09:14 AM |
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Not yet.
I took a minor detour this morning and although there is a traffic light opposite the slip road, it is facing towards traffic on the ring road hence
would be in sync with the lights on the right.
It is all fine and danday saying you should not find yourself in that situation but let me describe what happens.
Lights for the slip road turn red and traffic queues up at the white line.
The lights turn green. Now what you are saying is the first car should move forwards and proceed onto the ring road, the one behind it come to a stop
at the line and then proceed when the road in front of it is clear. This is repeated with the car in front.
Well you know that just does not happen, if it did, probably about 1/3 of the number of cars would get past the lights.
Anyway getting into that situation is neither here nor there as the question was: Ddoes one drive forward if one finds him/herself in front of the
white line and the lights turn green?
My opinion is that you should drive forwards, if it is safe to do so, and as yet I have not seen anything saying otherwise.
I dug out my highway code booklet, now I am not saying I am old but this is the version that has horses and carts and was illuminated by medieval
monks, to show:
Red means "STOP". Wait behind the stop line on the carriageway.
I interpret this as saying do not wait in front of the stop line when the lights are red.
 
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02GF74
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| posted on 12/12/08 at 09:16 AM |
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... I suspect we now have reached the point where ....
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